Legal Beagle by Graeme Edgeler

Read Post

Legal Beagle: Terrorism is already illegal

98 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 Newer→ Last

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Sorry! Comments now allowed.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3207 posts Report Reply

  • Thomas Lumley,

    I see that the current law doesn’t cover non-citizen residents of New Zealand unless they are stateless. Is the rationale that NZ can simply refuse to let them back in (or deport them), so they are Someone Else’s Problem?

    (added later: I see the Mercenary Offenses Act has broader extraterritorial provisions)

    Auckland • Since Feb 2013 • 49 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    One sentence immediately springs to mind: "We will always be at war with Eastasia."

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5434 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming,

    Hah, John Key lies. Film at eleven.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2934 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Nice work Graeme.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10654 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    business as usual
    First day back in the office and National are trying to push through ill-conceived legislation or alterations, under urgency...

    First. Bloody. Day!

    </sigh>

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7947 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    This is really scary. We don't even know what freedoms we're about to lose in this make-believe.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    It's kind of worse than "Key lies" - more like PM doesn't understand the laws he's supposed to be using to run the country. His crime if any is (possibly willful) ignorance

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2622 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Is it really lying if you don't even know what the truth is, and just make shit up about it, the way Key does on a daily basis?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10654 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    Key’s war imperitive experiences a shift in adverb intensity from:

    "It would be very odd…"

    to

    "the slightly odd thing…"

    If that’s not a mandate worth putting your life on the line for then what is? To me it sounds more like an observation one would make about the Cuntly’s refusing a dinner invitation.

    Key is very clear that New Zealand’s foreign policy should be independent:

    I think the second point is, and this is really the advice from the officials, If you, if you don’t stand up to a known terrorist group, that is dangerous and growing at a frightning rate, if the reason you don’t do that is because you feel intimidated by them then by definition they are starting to control your foreign policy. And in the end it’s not your foreign policy decided by New Zealanders, it’s saying that a terrorist group, based in Syria and Iraq is going to call the independent foreign policy shots of New Zealand, and I don’t think that’s right."

    Which is profound in its ommisions. Suggested revisions:

    I think the second point is, and this is really the advice from mark taslov, there is a known terrorist group that is dangerous and growing at a frightning rate, if the reason you do or don’t stand up to one is because you feel intimidated by them, then by definition they are starting to control your foreign and domestic policy. And in the end it’s not your foreign and domestic policy decided by New Zealanders, it’s saying that a terrorist group, based in Syria and Iraq is going to call the independent foreign and domestic policy shots of New Zealand, and I don’t think that’s right, except for the bit about domestic policy which I’m absolutely going to allow that terrorist group to milk hard and fast."

    Now ladies and gentleman without further ado, that troll we’ve all been waiting for. From the whakakaupapa hole, it is our proud privilege to present the mighty observations and arguments; Put your hands to together for the one and only wondrously amazing Natman!:

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Natman,

    You lefties would have us eating mung-beans, hugging trees and harboring terrorists.
    Just because Mr Key may seem to be "enhancing" powers that are already there, does not mean to say the current laws are erroneous. More power to him I say. I'd like to see those terrorists try anything here in Aotearoa - they would be muntered by the SAS, our police, the army and if that fails, the Mongrel Mob and Black Power would be mobilised in a gorilla warfare action against them. The Urewera people could also even have a role to play.
    So, don't worry it. There is cross-party support for action against ISIS (until a new leader of Labour is elected). Keep watching the News and Coronation Street - life will go on even if NZ's SAS goes to Syria and new laws are introduced.
    It's just a leftie conspiracy because Mr Key is so popular. Get over yourselves.

    Sitting • Since Oct 2014 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to mark taslov,

    Which officials, I wonder. He is, after all, an official.

    As for his ridiculous point that we're not in control of our foreign policy because we don't want to invite disaster on our own heads, perhaps he could have made that a few weeks ago when he was seeking his mandate from the people.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10654 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Natman,

    That was satire, right?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10654 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to BenWilson,

    Which officials, I wonder. He is, after all, an official.

    Oh you know the ones; those “officials” whose regular advice is so embarrassingly flawed that to publicly name them would bring ridicule to their families for generations. They are very odd and slightly real.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    First day back in the office and National are trying to push through ill-conceived legislation or alterations, under urgency...

    First. Bloody. Day!

    Actually not. Tomorrow is merely the first cabinet. Which, if/when it agrees with Key, will announce terms of reference to an inquiry into whether urgent legislation is needed. They're not going to pass it on the first day Parliament sits (all they'll do that day is be sworn in and elect a Speaker), and they're not doing that this week.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3207 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    Actually not.

    Yeah, I kinda knew that,
    but it is his signalled intent
    to use urgency, again,
    as in the past...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7947 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    It was pretty obvious you meant that. First day that is actually practical, so yes, not in the middle of the maiden speeches. Then the first openly public official moves will be made, although of course it's highly likely that moves have already begun. How likely is it that Key came up with this on his own, rather than as a result of endless US diplomatic pressure? How likely is it that this wasn't even something planned well before the election? I guess we'll have to wait for the next investigative journalist to shed light on that.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10654 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    endless US diplomatic pressure

    that sound is sucking, not blowing

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19729 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Mind you, I do have to wonder if it isn't just an excellent smoke screen, a way of diverting attention away from a government with a lot to hide, and it could just blow over, and we never send any troops, having fought hard to make sure that it doesn't happen, and meanwhile the embarrassing revelations of the year slowly slip down the memory hole.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10654 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to BenWilson,

    an excellent smoke screen, a way of diverting attention away from a government with a lot to hide, and it could just blow over...

    They haven't played their 'if you are questioning the Government,you must be supporting the terrorists' card yet... have they?
    Every Deck (Cheney clone) has one...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7947 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin, in reply to BenWilson,

    Nah, I think it was a coded message that National plans to renew the auld alliance with the gangs, Rob's Mob is back

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 1027 posts Report Reply

  • Natman, in reply to BenWilson,

    Satire?
    You people just don't get it. The left has just been annihilated in an election and you just keep rubbishing one of the most popular PM's in NZ history.
    National has a mandate to do whatever protects our national security.
    The terror threat is up, and you whingers will be the first to bleat if ISIS starts beheading Kiwis. New Zealand and its 5 eyes alliance partners need to take decisive action because the UN is impotent. Drone strikes, targeted bombings and surgical strikes by our SAS are needed. IS need to be given the message that if they try any of that terror nonsense in Aotearoa, Kiwi response will be swift and decisive. BTW, I'm glad Mr Key ditched the black flag idea, it was too close to the ISIS flag

    Sitting • Since Oct 2014 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • Marc C,

    Of course Key has to up the ante on all this, as painting the threat of terrorism, or war, is the best "insurance policy" any government can sign. It is the best distraction from what should matter for people locally. Talking about be-headings, about subversive activities, about men with beards meeting in mosques or private quarters, that will get a lot of people worried, and so the instilled fear is the best tool, to keep people loyal to the leadership, that after all "appears" to offer "stability", which most that bothered to vote sought, hence the election result.

    It will help pushing through the real agenda, the massive sale of state housing stock, the further welfare "reforms" denying people on benefits more rights and entitlements, the privatisation of education, health, welfare and ACC services, and what else they may have planned. Yes, there is the planned hollowing out of the RMA too, and Key said on Q+A today, they consider merging sections 6 and 7 now, hey that is nice, turn the environmental law into a "developer's law", with as little hurdles for private enterprise to build, construct, change, explore, exploit and whatever else there is, at their pleasure.

    Key term 3 will be a nasty one, for those without power and protection, and maybe, just maybe, the "terror" the government will instill on the weak, the dismepowered, the already overly whipped beneficiaries, also soon the state servants, will not even be looked at, because all talk and distraction will be about supposed "terror" we face from outside.

    It is time to send that Dunne factor, and that willing Flavell man, many emails, texts and tweets now, to put on the pressure, hey you can surely not agree to this, can you???

    As for ISIS, Key and Nats will do them the greatest favour, to have some SAS members on the ground in Iraq, the "infidels" will be shown on screen, if captured, and it will convince yet more Sunni to perhaps give ISIS the benefit of the doubt, rather than the US and its friends. Even the Shiites now call for NO foreign troops to come, as they want to "finish" ISIS on their own, on their terms.

    How bloody "welcoming" is this then, Mr Key?

    Auckland • Since Oct 2012 • 437 posts Report Reply

  • Marc C, in reply to Natman,

    And the message is? I suppose: "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuehrer", then?

    Auckland • Since Oct 2012 • 437 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz,

    Could it be that Key intends reducing the extent to which the judiciary would require proof of the acts? Doesn't the Crown currently need to prove a terrorist act beyond reasonable doubt? That information may not be easily had or perhaps the only information is circumstantial and/or derived from information obtained by the intelligence agencies. So the new measures could be a back door way of circumventing that.

    Just speculating.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.