Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Why we thought what we thought

292 Responses

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  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Alfie,

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think O’Connor would be doing anything illegal if he had leaked Police video evidence to Slater, even if the motivation and morality involved is questionable. It’s certainly not a good look for the cops to be cosying up to a vile blogger to discredit the victims of the Urewera raids after charges against them had been dropped. But it’s much worse for the Minister of Police to be actively encouraging that sort of behaviour.

    I'd actually disagree with you there, Alfie. O'Connor is the head of the Police union, and a reliable go-to for the media. He also has a pretty nasty habit of attacking any criticism of the Police (however mild) as hoddie-hugging from brainless cop-haters who wouldn't give a shit if police officers were slaughtered on a daily basis. Which I actually find rather offensive.

    I'm sure many around here would strenuously disagree, but Greg O'Connor trades on the mana his members have (and for the most part deserve, IMO). At the very least, police officers -- and the taxpayers they're supposed to be working for -- should be asking some very hard and very public questions about how their union is representing them.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to anth,

    I’ve been phoned to do a poll by Curia, David Farrar’s company so probably on behalf of National. The question that I found interesting was being asked to give scores to party leaders, with a list of Norman/Peters/Key/Cunliffe/English.

    It included English? Interesting! Anything else you can recall?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22761 posts Report Reply

  • simon g, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    I WATCHED IT AND I LEARNED HOW TO DEBATE.

    I WIN THIS THREAD. WHATEVER.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1324 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    it reigns, it pours...

    ...they go into politics,
    they rise like scum.
    IMHO…

    in some cases the froth becomes
    the 'head' of the country...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7896 posts Report Reply

  • Jack Harrison, in reply to simon g,

    At the end of the day Nu Zilders will see there's nothing to see.

    wellington • Since Aug 2014 • 296 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Did anyone actually watch the thing?

    Saw a bit and unfortunately JK was on a roll and I turned it off when as simon g said ....JK: BLAH BLAH BLAH, WHATEVER WHATEVER!
    .....DC : We want to help the poor. (Boo groan groan from the front rows in the Audience)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Saw a bit and unfortunately JK was on a roll and I turned it off

    Cunliffe was on FirstLine this morning, complaining that Key was making stuff up about Labour’s CGT policy and he had to give Key the benefit of the doubt on the night without being able to check. That’s all I know of the debate.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    JK was on a roll...

    He was quite the 'ham'!

    the 'whatevers' were particularly egregious
    especially for an alleged 'adult!'

    Cunliffe dismissed him at one point
    as a 'schoolyard larrikin'
    - that was right on the money!

    Key acts like that kid in your class that disrupted everything all the time, and ultimately marred your education, as they chewed up time and patience...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7896 posts Report Reply

  • Nora Leggs, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Attachment

    in some cases the froth becomes
    the ‘head’ of the country…

    Auckland • Since Dec 2011 • 2692 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Key acts like that kid in your class that disrupted everything all the time, and ultimately marred your education, as they chewed up time and patience…

    I've been reliably informed by the National Party that he's talking about policy.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    That was what I thought about the debate in a poetic little nutshell. Key seemed to have morphed into Muldoon. Not drunk, surely? Hyped himself up to win over the audience with his famed sense of humour? He made David Cunliffe look statesman-like - a major gaffe and unmade points notwithstanding.

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 559 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Key acts like that kid in your class that disrupted everything all the time, and ultimately marred your education, as they chewed up time and patience…

    That's Question Time also. I had oft' thought. If he gets no questions he'd spit the dummy. Would have liked to have seen that put to the test. When Labour took on the strategy of not rising to his bait ,he looked quite dejected or as he would probably think....."I'm refuted, I'll have to reject that". But his larrikin behaviour showed up most when he thought he had something on DC. He would jump out of his seat to try weasle goss in. ""Well I cant tell you about that ,but what I can tell you is CUNLIFFE'S GOT PRIVATE TRUSTS HA HA!" ( info probably from his oriffice via Jason Ede)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • anth, in reply to Russell Brown,

    It included English? Interesting! Anything else you can recall?

    That was the only bit that stood out.

    The rest of what I remember:
    How likely are you to vote?
    Which party would you vote for if the election was tomorrow?
    How likely are you to vote for a different party?
    ... and who would that be?
    Which party do you think of for each of this long list of phrases? The only one that really sticks in my mind was "which party would best crack down on crime", because I think reducing crime is important but cracking down isn't necessarily the same thing.
    What is the biggest issue for you this election?
    The demographic questions were employment status and number of children. I don't think I've done one of these before where they didn't ask for income band.

    Since Nov 2006 • 77 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Speaking of our leaders displaying dignity:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10451707/Judith-Collins-Cunliffe-is-a-moron

    The full article is quite funny, in a head-shaking kind of way.

    Warning: may give you a Jilted John earworm (old person music reference ...)

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1324 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to simon g,

    I WIN THIS THREAD. WHATEVER.

    When can we get a favourite button?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to simon g,

    The full article is quite funny, in a head-shaking kind of way.

    Her upside was she got to campaign in her electorate - wasn't she planning on that prior to this...
    The delusions and entitlement are strong in this one....

    It is an odd situation when our comedians make more sense than our sitting politicians -
    Michele A'Court nails it today - I think she should run the country and leave Key to the Bad Comedy Halls.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7896 posts Report Reply

  • Roger Lacey, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    The delusions and entitlement are strong in this one….

    +1

    Michele A’Court nails it today

    Does she ever.

    Whatakataka Bay Surf Club… • Since Apr 2008 • 148 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to izogi,

    Cunliffe was on FirstLine this morning, complaining that Key was making stuff up about Labour’s CGT policy and he had to give Key the benefit of the doubt on the night without being able to check.

    Obvious response: Cunliffe should actually have known his own policy (and one IIRC he developed while finance spokesman before the last election) well enough to zing Key right back. As I've said repeatedly, I don't mark politicians down for saying "I don't know" or "I'll have to check that out". But you don't get to have it both ways, because I'm damn certain that if the shoe was on the other food Cunliffe would have been finding various polite ways to suggest the Prime Minister harden the fuck up and do his prep instead of whining. Or if you're taking it to the next level, artlessly muse about what secret agenda National doesn't want to talk about. That's always fun.

    Key seemed to have morphed into Muldoon. Not drunk, surely? Hyped himself up to win over the audience with his famed sense of humour?

    OK, so he's either "tired and bitter" or drunk? I know Key doesn't have many fans around here, but the innuendo along those lines is pretty distasteful no matter who it's directed at.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    unless, that is, you wanted to use time as the fourth dimension

    and

    plot all the current election and polling data onto the surface of a four-dimensional hypercube

    I'm not suggesting anything so exotic. That one would need to is argument enough not to do it that way.

    I'm talking about making a one-dimensional plot using all the data. You sit on the left edge, and any characters of interest to you are plotted along a line in order (and proportionally) to how far away from you they are. The Euclidean distance is a good start on how to quantify that.

    It might also be of interest to know the strongest contributing dimensions of the distance, so that you can grasp why their views are so far from yours. You might plot right on top of someone on the Political Compass, and yet find your distance from them is quite great, because you have profound disagreement with them in other directions.

    For instance, my distance from Winston Peters is not really a function of the two dimensions we see there. He's miles away from me in some racist homophobic dimension you can't see there. Similarly Peter Dunne is a long way from me on account of his main contribution to politics, drug policy, on which I despise his stance, even though his position is quite moderate on the plotted dimensions. And Colin Craig might look close to National on that graph, but if you emphasized aspects of his religiousity and belief in science, I think the gap would be a lot bigger.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • simon g, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Watch the first part of the debate, Craig. "Incoherent" would be kind.

    No, I don't think he was drunk, but if he was stone-cold sober, that's kinda worse.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1324 posts Report Reply

  • James George,

    Incidentally it is looking awfully like granny Herald has spat the dummy, tossed in the towel , thrown her hands in the air & walked off in a hissy fit. There have been weeks and weeks of comment threads jampacked with pissed off kiwis expressing their anger at the obvious corruption of the Key mob and the Herald just sorta let them be. I imagine because they have worked out the usual heavy handed censorship they used to engage in and call 'moderation' wouldn't have played well with the electoral commish during campaign season.
    Anyway as of yesterday that seems to be no more. Many of the 'opinion' i.e. rightwing claptrap posing as normal columns, disappear from their opinions page several hours after going up with absolutely no trace of the threads that are attached.
    Going on precedent they are doubtlessly full of citizens' ire.

    Mebbe their moderator is having a sickie. I seem to remember that was one of the functions APN relocated to Oz and as we all know the tradition of Monday morning turning into Tuesday, sickies still lives across the ditch.
    That of course poses an interesting question about how the hell some Melbourne trainee copyperson knows enough about Kiwi politics to moderate effectively.

    I kinda prefer the view that the APN execs are tired of copping shit from their National Party cobbers and have pulled the pin on commenting. It will certainly backfire if they have.

    Since Sep 2007 • 96 posts Report Reply

  • Marcus Turner,

    A factor in all this that keeps disappointing me is the role of news organisations. Besides assorted internet news sites, my main source of "audio news" is National Radio. I've been disappointed with how much presenters seem to have been concentrating on who "scored points" in a debate. I presume that there's research showing this sort of thing can influence elections, but can't help wondering if this is partly because news organisations make a feature of it.

    And even though media organisations seem to acknowledge the "horse race" nature of election coverage, it doesn't appear to have actually caused them to change the style of their coverage.

    While some people are having "great fun" with politics and the election process, decisions are being made about my personal freedoms and opportunities.

    I hope I'm more likely to be swayed by facts than rhetoric: I'd like to see more of this reflected in news coverage, and less about "who won on points" or who made whom look silly.

    Since Nov 2006 • 212 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    because I’m damn certain that if the shoe was on the other food Cunliffe would have been finding various polite ways to suggest the Prime Minister harden the fuck up and do his prep instead of whining.

    That was how it was in the first debate and Cunliffe did no such thing. Cunliffe has tried to stay on message ,Labour that is and Labour Policy, between Key telling porkies about the opposition. National are very happy to tell the public what's wrong with Labour because they have no policy to talk about .

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • stephen clover, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    In real time I actually really felt that Cunliffe was trying to answer the OG question from the moderator (or the floor?) and not get sucked into tit-fer-tat with Key. But suddenly he looked like he didn't know the answer.

    wgtn • Since Sep 2007 • 355 posts Report Reply

  • stephen clover, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    National are very happy to tell the public what's wrong with Labour because they have no policy to talk about .

    Indeed! One of the most disappointing things about Key was that at one point when asked from the floor for "specifics" of various new policies, he spent his allotted time decrying Labour policies from a decade ago.

    wgtn • Since Sep 2007 • 355 posts Report Reply

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