Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The non-binary council

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  • Keir Leslie, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    There's no reason for most voters to rank all candidates. If you just put a 1 besides the candidate you'd vote for in an fpp election, you've already engaged just as much as you would have then; if you order the five or so most likely winners you've almost certainly had as great an input as you really care about.

    I agree that expecting people to rank more than five or six candidates is stupid. The solution is to get rid of multi-member wards! (And abolish DHBs full stop.)

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia, in reply to Carol Stewart,

    Tend to agree but heard a few pertinent points out around Auckland today. One was from a woman who said, Well we'd rather know, wouldn't we? Hmmmm. And my daughter in law said, I'm from London. If a politician hadn't stolen money or had an affair there would be something wrong.

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 559 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Stephen R,

    Their insistence that he should resign based on an online poll on their website seemed a little too pat to me

    Funnily enough the Herald's claiming this based on its poll of 57% of people saying he should stand down, despite this only being marginally higher than the 54% of those who didn't vote for Len Brown to begin with (pdf) (and only when considering the <35% who actually voted).

    Not to suggest that the 57% is made from the 54%, of course, and not to suggest that people's opinions generally should be ignored, but if there's logic in going with a poll of angry website visitors, I guess the sky is the limit.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • High Tory, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I have only observed one council meeting, the performance after the Eden Park crush.
    However my view is that Len Brown or his replacement will not have much difficulty maintaining a solid left centre city vision leaning majority. What has been lost from the council is the high intellect of Northey, the professionalism of Hartley and the intellect and undesirable fundentalist feminism and enviromentalism of Coney. Therefore I suspect the core of the Unitary Plan will be not be pursued vigorously.
    In my own right centre view the Unitary Plan was undesirable because I don't regard it as helpful to maintain the white working class in large numbers in Auckland as they contribute little in modern economic potential and attraction and putting them in suburban high rises seems the worst option of all, unless the aim is to supervise and control them. I dislike the loop as lower cost light rail, reopening the Mt Eden, Three Kings and Dominion Road Mt Roskill tram routes and possibly to Herne Bay and Great Lynn would be more useful possibly with a much more limited tram cut and cover underground connected to Britomart and possibly Strand.
    My own view in Auckland is the real problem is the difficulty in moving within the CBD itself with more the need for tram type shuttles to K Road, Upper Symonds and University. Its a real trial walking up Q street with books, groceries or liquor.
    Also the CBD is unpleasant with no real street control of the working class, 16-26 year drunks and aggressive panhandling. Efforts at social control are generally confined to the hopeless alcoholics and social clients, who often aren't much trouble while the agreesive and boozy characters who wreck anything aren't policed, deliberately its seems to me because many in authority don't want 24/7 cosmopoitian life.
    The other point about the local body elections is both the English ,Joyce and Collins ,Whaleoil factions did not want victory in the Mayoralty races, as they wanted councils in the three main centres that functioned and they could work with, rather than ones that were divided and doing little. National are now more a left centre country party without any real representation for the middle class, professionals, sane libertarians or serious business.
    The Country Party and socially conservative right probably prefer the progressive weakening of the Auckland council with either a discredited Brown or Aussie type left leader like Hulse who is too pretty and liberal to be powerfully attracted to the old Brown consitituency. In the not too distant future both factions of National will probably be keen to get rid of any pretence of serious local goverment and follow the example of the closing down of the CRC or the total centralisation used by Thatcher to break the power of the left.
    I don't seen any credibility in the current council. Most of the supposed right would achieve their limits playing snap at the RSA and can't reallys scrutinise the council or left planners. Quax is a sub Banks, strictly 5R2 TBHS material, 'Please Sirs' as my father called the Richard Taylor and John Lister hayseeds. Christine Fletcher is too old and was always too much of alturistic sentamentalist. Brewer is obviouly ambivalent and I can't believe he is any sort of credible right centre. I mean if you think the bars and cafes in Nuffield St are sophisticated ,god help you. Even in my visits to Melbourne in the 1980s all the good hotels were far more sophisticated particularly in the wealth and style of their clientle than anything I have seen in NZ.
    In Auckland you get good looking, do gooders as barmaids and barmen. Even in Herne Bay the female hairdressers all seem to be fat and butch. I assume they give them a job becasue their percieved as too ugly to sell in Sydney. In Christchurch getting your hair cut could be almost as much as a mutual flirt as a brothel as in Korea.In Auckland your a predator or a cretin if you want enter a bar alone that is full of females under 25. In Christchurch all the good places seemed to be run by organised crime which meant good looking barmaids, cheap black booze and reliable service until 5 minutes before you were unconcious

    North Island • Since Oct 2013 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    That’s not a problem with the method of voting, that’s a problem with people and relationships. Fix the problem rather than focus on one outcome – protecting their ability to vote, ignoring the other outcomes – violence, bullying etc.

    Well, yes, it’s a problem with society that some people don’t feel empowered to state their actual opinion about important things in front of others around them, for a variety of reasons. But I don’t realistically see that changing any time soon, if ever, hence the significance of genuinely secret ballots which don’t offer a realistic possibility of a person’s vote being discovered after it’s been cast.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    here's a Sanfran ballot

    As a past resident I have to point out that only tourists call it "sanfran" or "frisco" ... it grates

    Remember that in that ballot they're not trying to elect 11 councilors for one ward

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2608 posts Report Reply

  • Rageaholic, in reply to Carol Stewart,

    That was the point I was trying to illustrate (poorly I guess, my apologies!). Why base his resignation on one poll and not the other? Because we shouldn't be basing anything on these silly polls at all.

    I find it interesting that Herald readers think Len Brown should go, but Stuff readers think he should stay; but that is merely a curiousity, nothing which any real world decisions should be based on.

    Eden • Since Nov 2010 • 20 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    I knew about "Frisco", which is reminiscent of flared trousers.

    But do locals really choke out the whole four syllables every time? Or call it SFR? Or the 415?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    People just call it "the city" ... even after I moved to Berkeley it was just "the city"

    "The 415" is so LA ... and well we hate them ....

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2608 posts Report Reply

  • Scott Gamble, in reply to High Tory,

    High Tory, your name isn't Cameron Slater, is it?
    You certainly seem to spew as much drivel and snobbery.
    Agree with you about the trams though.

    Australia • Since Apr 2011 • 13 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to DexterX,

    It is interesting that a security guard at the Edge venue was fired for having sex on the job and Len has done precisely that.

    Dexter: Perhaps we could keep this forum slightly above the level of the New Zealand Herald and avoid elevating allegation and innuendo to the level of established fact?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye, in reply to izogi,

    Agree. I'd be superkeen to see the rampantly pro-Len online survey results they collated before the election.

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 533 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to High Tory,

    troll troll troll la lal la

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Rageaholic,

    I find it interesting that Herald readers think Len Brown should go,

    Granny is for all the readers who are without sin. Shocking!, sex! catholic!! . BURN in hell!! :)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    And, you know, let's remember it's not like Len Brown's on an hourly rate. Most people with salaried jobs would consider it pretty legit to disappear for an hour to have a coffee with a mate or whatever every now and then, as long as the work gets done. This "it was taxpayer time" stuff is just petty.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    Indeed. People use the "on taxpayer time" line as an excuse to justify their prurient outrage. I wonder if they'd be so parsimonious if he wasn't married?

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 533 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Todd, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    >>> Note they use three-choice STV (I think) rather than exhaustive STV. <<<

    That’s because it’s a two-party system, Rich. And note, as Paul Campbell implies, the elections on that ballot paper are all to fill a single vacancy. (The San Francisco and Oakland City Councils are elected by "three-choice" single-seat STV.)

    The system is designed to ensure (or simply assumes) a Democrat or a Republican will win, but gives voters who support neither party the opportunity to vote for an independent / third party candidate.

    It is another, lesser, version of STV, in my view, down there with, but just above, Australian Senate STV.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2013 • 125 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    This “it was taxpayer time” stuff is just petty.

    Well, far be it from me to hold the media to tiresome journalistic standards, but if there’s any actual evidence that Brown did anything illegal or unethical I’ve not stumbled over it. (Fun Fact: adultery isn’t a criminal offence in this country. It's also a stone one or two high profile media types I could, but won't, name shouldn't be throwing around from the back of a moral high horse. )

    Oh, and seriously media folks, give the “eww, old man fucked a young chick” Pecksniffing a rest. Or come around here, so me and my 27-year-older partner can take turns smacking you ageist fucks upside the head like the shit-filled piñatas your are.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Todd,

    Ohh, for goodness sake, Keir, millions of people in Australia, Ireland and the world over, vote in both public and private multi-seat STV elections all the time, without any difficulty. And the public elections are mostly conducted at polling stations. People know they’re going to vote, and take along a piece of paper with their preferences already written down. It’s hardly difficult.

    But you're right, though, that after expressing five or six preferences, "you've almost certainly had as great an input as you really care about." I've done a mock-up of a vote in Dunedin's 11-seat Central Ward (at Kiwiblog). The effective preferences on that single vote "helped elect” seven candidates, as follows:

    Candidate A 48.422%, B 42.898%, C 3.845%, D, 3.816%, E 0.923%, F 0.062%, G 0.033%, with the remaining 0.001% going to the runner-up candidate, and therefore was unused – total = 100%.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2013 • 125 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    Actually the Australian multi-seat STV experience is full of fuck ups and bizarre preference deals, but ignoring that aspect, I never said anything that disagrees with you.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Todd, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    I agree that expecting people to rank more than five or six candidates is stupid. The solution is to get rid of multi-member wards! (And abolish DHBs full stop.)

    Well, I really disagree with *that*, which is what the first part of my response was referring to.

    And yes, Australian Senate STV is a very poor advertisement for STV, which I've said at STV Q&A.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2013 • 125 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Uhh.. I don't think I'd want to smack piñatas that were filled with shit. :)

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 533 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Oh, and seriously media folks, give the “eww, old man fucked a young chick” Pecksniffing a rest.

    I've been surprised at how so many people have banged on about the "age difference". She's 32, for goodness sake.

    Otoh, I think it was pretty poor judgement to be doing it in the Ngati Whatua room.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • "chris", in reply to Russell Brown,

    I think it was pretty poor judgement to be doing it in the Ngati Whatua room.

    Something I found to be kind of arty in the Herald’s account was:

    She said a security guard once found her naked with Mr Brown in the Ngati Whatua room in the Town Hall

    To me that reads as if it’s just her that was naked, what’s up with that? In all my years…

    location, location, locat… • Since Dec 2010 • 250 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I've been surprised at how so many people have banged on about the "age difference". She's 32, for goodness sake.

    It's not far off from the half-plus-seven rule of thumb (attributed to Hugh Hefner?).

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5420 posts Report Reply

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