Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Te Qaeda and the God Squad

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  • Stephen Judd,

    Andrew:

    Re Rongomai Bailey:

    The police opposed bail and were required to indicate the strength of evidence against him. It was a somewhat bizarre legal discussion which followed. It transpired the police had no admissible evidence to justify laying the arms charges. In fact, they had no direct evidence whatever that he had ever even touched a firearm of any sort. What they did have was evidence gained under surveillance which cannot be used as evidence on the arms charges.

    So here was a person arrested on gun charges but then detained on evidence inadmissible under our gun laws but admissible for denying bail for charges under the gun laws. Confused? I was.

    So the police proceeded to spend the next 20 minutes or so reading what they regarded as the juiciest excerpts from the surveillance transcripts. These were obtained by bugging conversations in a car on a couple of road trips.

    I'd like to record here the details of these transcripts but that evidence is suppressed. Suffice to say, these conversations were nothing one wouldn't hear on a Saturday afternoon at any gun club around New Zealand – even before the beer comes out.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Stephen:

    Hadn't seen that till now. Far freakin' out.

    One always wants to wait to hear what's said in court and, assuming that's an accurate depiction of proceedings, I'm now able to start forming a view. So far, it isn't good.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22834 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    in fairness she was responding to the Maori Party's attacks which included a deliberate misrepresentation of how the relationship between the govt and police works. I'm quite happy she took them to task over it.

    In fairness, Neil, Clark could have made the point by simply saying again "No Minister in this Government - or any other - directly intervenes in Police operational matters. If Mrs. Turia or Mr. Sharples believe they have any evidence to the contrary, put up or shut up."

    She went a bit further than that, and IMO unwisely so - I understand the political imperative (and suspecting she knew exactly what was in the latest Herald-Digipoll published today). Just don't think Clark has her usually formidable sense of self-discipline and judgment is at full strength.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    OTOH, new from Bomber:

    I’ve spoken to a lot of people who have seen what the Police have in terms of allegations and everything I hear back suggests it is serious, the manner in which blind support has been whipped up for the Urewera 17 I believe may end up being extremely detrimental to the activist community when the evidence is released, this plays into the hands of right wing reactionaries like Winston Peters, like Michael Laws, like Leighton Smith who will flay the activist community and those who rushed in to support people before they heard what the evidence was.

    He also notes the grief he's getting personally, including the imposter posting offensive things under his name in various forums. It's quite an interesting read.

    But I wish he'd learn to punctuate.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22834 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    Aye.

    But: "I’ve spoken to a lot of people who have seen what the Police have in terms of allegations."

    Who has seen what they have in terms of evidence? The only report that I know is that one from John Minto I just quoted. (Spotted by the ever-vigilant Idiot/Savant on NRT, by the way, I'm just passing it along).

    Bomber has the very valid point, also made by Finn Higgins earlier, that multiple issues are being confused here, and that people are being carried away into promising unconditional support that they may later regret.

    At this point, I find the allegations unlikely. If the evidence is produced, I will have to eat my words and direct my ire at a totally different group of people - and I will.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    It's a refrain Bomber's been playing ever since this story broke - 'trust me, thanks to my down-with-the-activists cred I have inside information which I'm not at liberty to reveal' - all the while invoking the bogeyman of talkback/Leighton/Laws - effectively, the kind of people that Bomber is energetically fast-tracking himself into becoming. It's pretty much all about Bomber, and has bugger all to do with the stuff us mortals are largely in the dark about.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    and one must also assume that as PM Helen has carte blanche to release certain information as she see's fit.

    She certainly does not - no Prime Minister does. And that's a pretty smart convention when the Prime Minister is privy to an extraordinary range of sensitive information, by virtue of his or her position, that should not be released because it serves their current interests as the parliamentary leader of a political party.

    It's also a pretty FUBAR way to defend yourself against charges of political interference in the Police's operational decisions. As I said, Clark usually picks her words with more care. Listening to Checkpoint this evening, she also seems to have had second thoughts - because she was pretty curt in brushing off questions.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    But I wish he'd learn to punctuate.

    Definitely, it do's my mildly dyslexic head in. his words looks like the beast of gangly vine swamp.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Good old RNZ & Mary Wilson have an audio of Aunty Helen backing her statement last night.

    Keith Locke recons shes prejudiced the case due to her inside knowledge - the SIS/Police briefings.

    18:45hrs
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    It's pretty much all about Bomber, and has bugger all to do with the stuff us mortals are largely in the dark about.

    Come on, Joe - one of the nice things about PAS is that (at least most of the time) we genuinely try to engage with each other, and do so in a serious and respectful manner. Yes, Bomber tends to get up my nose - and stay there - but the crap ‘disinfo bomber’ is putting around is truly vile.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    Another nice thing abut PAS is the general lack of self-regarding web-punditry.
    If you feel the need to featherbed that kind of thing it's not my problem. Again, should you feel that bomber needs to be cut some slack due to his current troubles, fine. It has next to nothing to do with my post.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison,

    She went a bit further than that, and IMO unwisely so...

    technically I agree. But every moron in the Green and Maori parties as well as various self important left wing activists have spouted a lot of very stupid and inflammatory BS on this issue so I’m not about to criticise Clark for putting them in their place.

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison,

    And the latest piece of idiocy from Minto -

    Letter from John Minto to Chris Trotter

    What the f*ck happened to the activist left.

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    technically I agree.

    No 'technically' about it, in my view. Dumb thing to say, full stop. Just as there's not excuse for Mallard hitting people - and that's where you stop talking.

    But every moron in the Green and Maori parties as well as various self important left wing activists have spouted a lot of very stupid and inflammatory BS on this issue so I’m not about to criticise Clark for putting them in their place.

    And don't leave out Winston and various other pant-wetters on the right of the political and media spectrum. Sorry for flogging a dead nag here, but RB is right: what the hell was wrong with the default STFU position she'd taken? Another bad poll, and another shitstorm on her own front bench? God, I remember when Clark wasn't so easily rattled.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Thanks for clarifying that Neil.
    So Helen is omnipotent - Great.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    And just to be even handed, I also think it wasn't that smart of John Key to blurt that he'd apparently received a briefing from the SIS. "Technically" he didn't say anything wrong, but it was unhelpful to set all the conspiracy theorists a-twitter.

    I suspect, someone is giving Key good advice about when to stop flapping his gums, and even better he's paying attention. From my partisan perspective, this is one very dangerous shit storm National is doing well to avoid. To be honest, I don't think any other party is going to walk away from this without an egg facial or two.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    I'm amazed Clark didn't just stick with the standard "leave the police to do their jobs" line that all politicians should have written on a reference sheet for this kind of occasion.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    So here was a person arrested on gun charges but then detained on evidence inadmissible under our gun laws but admissible for denying bail for charges under the gun laws. Confused? I was.

    That's really interesting. The fact that it's written by Minto has me less all over it than if it was written by a journalist, but still...

    I'm with Craig on wondering what Helen Clark was on when she started on that napalm and molotov cocktails bent. And on whoever is giving Key good advice to keep his head under the parapet. I suspect the Maori party could do OK out of this, because they police case is looking shaky and they're protecting 'their people', who will reward them for it if it turns out not to be a big terrorist conspiracy, Greens I think are possibly going to lose mainstream non-activist support (possibly through no fault of their own, just through association), and Labour will be spewing if the police case falls over. Winston Peters will... dammit, can people stop electing that moron?

    But every moron in the Green and Maori parties as well as various self important left wing activists have spouted a lot of very stupid and inflammatory BS on this issue so I’m not about to criticise Clark for putting them in their place.

    I don't have a list of the morons in the above parties, because I'm not a member. But there's a bunch of morons everywhere who have opened their mouth on this, and I've heard a bunch of left-wing activists and members of those parties say some quite reasonable and sensible things on the issue. The Greens for example, have sensibly kept Sue Bradford away from it and put Keith Locke out in front and pushed the issue of the amendments to the TSA.

    Personally I can see where Minto was coming from with his letter to Trotter. Chris Trotter seems as much interested these days as keeping his income as a columnist/political commentator/writer etc, rather than actually being left wing.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I found Minto's accusations against Trotter over Iraq a bit bizarre, and I haven't been able to find anything Trotter wrote backing Blair's sign-up to the war.

    A few months before the invasion he certainly didn't seem to be on board with the project.

    Meanwhile, from this blog post on the stoush, an amazing Indymedia link.

    Truly. Barking. Mad.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22834 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Meanwhile, from this blog post on the stoush, an amazing Indymedia link.

    Truly. Barking. Mad.

    If the person wasn't arguing so hard you'd think they were just drunk and having some fun.

    Apparently they're just not sane enough to be allowed on the internet.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • InternationalObserver,

    So Helen is omnipotent - Great.

    Maybe she should cut back on the Viagra?

    (aw c'mon, don't hate me - that joke wrote itself!)

    Since Jun 2007 • 909 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    wow. a non-tze ming thread that just won't quit...

    Truly. Barking. Mad.

    it was looking for an alternative media source that wasn't completely freaking ridiculous that got me into reading blogs.

    the one where the indymedia people suggested the indonesian tsunami was caused by a rogue nuclear weapon was all a bit too much for me.

    young folks. with drugs. and big imaginations.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Truly. Barking. Mad.

    And the really depressing thing is that it's only second nuttiest statement I've read today after hearing Greg O'Connor's truly demented keynote speech at the Police Association conference this morning.

    Apparently Police are 'too receptive to criticism', and its putting lives and Western Civ itself at mortal peril...

    If I was Annette King, I really this man's endorsement with extreme caution.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/__data/assets/audio_item/0018/1182510/mdr-20071030-1200-Midday_News-wmbr.asx

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Bol,

    David Icke fans sure are hilarious. My favourite bit is on the indymedia post is where the anonymous arch-nemesis of masonic illumaniti reptilian shapeshifters tells his/her opponent to look past Icke's crazy ideas and concentrate on the good ones.

    On a non-reptilian shapeshifter note, I can't help noticing that some of the PA bloggers have been a bit quiet of late. Come back cuzzies! Are they in hibernation or something?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 32 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    Meanwhile, from this blog post on the stoush, an amazing Indymedia link.

    Truly. Barking. Mad.

    In the first sentence of the blog post, the Illuminati is mentioned, which reminds me of this comment I saw over at the Herald's "Your Views" on the subject of the new trianglular Auckland City Council logo.

    "Un illuminated" of "Whanganui" wrote:

    I'm sure that Auckland's new logo is just another pyramid styled after the same pyramid logo that we see on the USA $1 bill. So no, it's not money well spent as the general population probably don't realise thats it just another neo-con con job. It's the sign of greed and fear.

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1946 posts Report Reply

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