Hard News: London's Burning
445 Responses
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
While the rioters have a right to be pissed off, their anger is horribly uncoordinated,
Yeah, they should have gone on-line, done some research and torched some slightly more up-market postcodes. Yes, that’s hostile and sarcastic. But I’ve long since hit the point where its not only Daily Mail columnists who should take a long pull on a double tall shutthefuckupachino.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
But I’ve long since hit the point where its not only Daily Mail columnists who should take a long pull on a double tall shutthefuckupachino.
Uncalled for, methinks. DeepRed explicitly didn't condone their actions, -- who would? -- but it's not hard to make the case that at least some of those young people have a right to feel angry.
For a start, it's school holidays and the political class closed down the only places they had to go that didn't cost money, then fucked off to Tuscany.
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
People arrive to Clean up Clapham
But have to go home because the Police wont let them enter the “Crime Scene"…Residents around Clapham Junction gathered as early as 9am to start cleaning their riot-hit streets.
However they had to wait a long time to get permission from the police and local council.
Sounds familiar?.
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The city is heavily divided over this, here's some typical comments from people I know in London ( not working class)
"Huw was told while working with in London today "Your going to have to leave the job and get out, riots due in Hammersmith and Fulham" .... Can't the arses just go out and get jobs instead of taking from tax payers!!!! "
and
" A Message to all the rioters ..........You wanna be big men and fight to the death, well get your sorry little arses on the next plane to Afghanistan and stand alongside real men, they're called soldiers and they are fighting a war unlike you bunch of pathetic wastes of space!!"Scary .
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insurers 'will pay claims then recover money from the police
Britain’s police forces could face a bill for tens of millions of pounds from insurance companies because property was damaged in the rioting while the “police effectively failed to keep law and order”.
Don'cha just love those cuddly little insurance companies?.
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Islander, in reply to
Shouldnt we going back to the beginnings of insurance companies? Concerned property owners banding to gather?
Urm, supposed to be "together"?
That latter gathering phase came when the companies turned to commercial...custard. Shark-infested, at that. -
Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Don’cha just love those cuddly little insurance companies?.
Oh, I’d love to see the Met respond with a terse Blackberry message along these lines: “C ya in court, fuck-bags. Ur even less popular than us. XXOX” Seriously, what is it with insurance companies and self-inflicted PR disasters?
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Excellent turn of phrase there Craig. :) My only hope would be the message would be recieved after the leedle peeps got their full replacement policies honoured. I'd hate civil unrest to be any excuse if the Police refuse.
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This post by London blogger Laurie Penny might be of interest. I don’t know anything about her, but she makes some good points.
Most of the people who will be writing, speaking and pontificating about the disorder this weekend have absolutely no idea what it is like to grow up in a community where there are no jobs, no space to live or move, and the police are on the streets stopping-and-searching you as you come home from school. The people who do will be waking up this week in the sure and certain knowledge that after decades of being ignored and marginalised and harassed by the police, after months of seeing any conceivable hope of a better future confiscated, they are finally on the news. In one NBC report, a young man in Tottenham was asked if rioting really achieved anything:
"Yes,” said the young man. “You wouldn’t be talking to me now if we didn’t riot, would you?"
"Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."
Eavesdropping from among the onlookers, I looked around. A dozen TV crews and newspaper reporters interviewing the young men everywhere ‘’’
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Rich of Observationz, in reply to
The police choosing to ignore the law is one of the main causes of the trouble. Are you saying we need more of that?
Anyway, I think a British or European judge would decide that an insurance company, or anyone else, was entitled to the benefit of the law as it's written, not as interpreted in the light of the parties perceived popularity.
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Martin Barry, in reply to
<q> Seriously, what is it with insurance companies and self-inflicted PR disasters?<q>
Well that is the law and you can hardly blame the Insurance companies for acting on it.The Riot Damages Act 1886 covers this and essentially the Police are liable for damages caused by riot and must compensate the Insurers and presumably the uninsured if they act quickly (14 day limit for submitting claims)
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Hmmm, sorry didn't get that quote bit right...
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Watching the footage shot by residents – the guy saying, “Get it real, you lot piss me the phuck off” I agree with; the footage ends with an assault victim being helped up and someone stealing from his bag.
There is a massive humanity bypass all around – and that includes the political process. It is all about what YOU, (whether you are in public office or a rioting phuckhead) can get away with whatever the circumstances and it is ok if SOMEONE ELSE suffers the consequence.
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Looking at a person's rights at law and insurance companies/corporates - It is a hall mark of the Key govt that they have been able to effectively extinghuish people rights at law as in the Leaky Home, ChCh quakes without too much of a fuss that I can see.
It is about what you can get away with rather than doing the right thing the right way.
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The things is what just happened was not unpredicted;.boredom, poverty and alienation. These are social conditions well understood by now.
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I think any analysis of what is happening has to take into account that the behaviour of people in groups is not a simple aggregate of their individual motivations, but something more complicated, more chaotic, and more primal. When enough of us are together, our relationships transcend the merely spatial, especially when some outside force acts on us. In those moments, it is not all about me.
If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you jump too? If we are honest, sometimes the answer is yes, we would.
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Islander, in reply to
Dear Stephen – be assured by this asexual person – actually, no- along with the lack of oxcytocin, we have a terrible ability to quietly, unassumingly, ACCURATELY sum up the survival factors, for how many & for whom, and then go do-***
so, if it was my family/friends jumping off aforesaid cliff? I’d be out there with the barbed wire, making phuqueing sure the cliff edge was closed off- and there’d be me, in unassuming flourescent vest with flags & a loudhailer – and a large stick – making very bloody sure you knew there was a cliff and a drop-off ahead-
***Which is why, I suspect, a non-breeding section of humanity has survived. We see things/situations accurately (which for a legally blind person is hystorically funny (my word! Getyerhands off it! My word!) -
Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you jump too? If we are honest, sometimes the answer is yes, we would.
Recently we watched a doco of an absolutely unbelievable incident of 2 Swedish twin sisters do the equivalent of that. There is much on the internet about it and easy to find. I feel it is really difficult for some to watch so haven't posted this" but 2 swedish twin sisters" does get one there.
This appeared to be where one sister has actually followed the others thought process and there was a rare disorder (french name, cant remember it) where they had almost become one. I found it fascinating but horrifying all at the same time. -
Islander, in reply to
folie a deux?
Actually, part of ANZ law (and other legal systems also.)
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Islander, in reply to
Sof', it is actually a defence for madness (I think - it is so long ago that I did any part
of an Ll.B) and was brought up - but rejected in the Hulme/Parker murder case. -
Yes, think that was it Islander. very rare. This case will be studied for years ,to be sure. The super strength that they had as well....
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Recently we watched a doco of an absolutely unbelievable incident of 2 Swedish twin sisters do the equivalent of that. There is much on the internet about it and easy to find. I feel it is really difficult for some to watch so haven’t posted this” but 2 swedish twin sisters” does get one there.
And before that, there were the Silent Twins, June & Jennifer Gibbons of Wales.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
The police choosing to ignore the law is one of the main causes of the trouble. Are you saying we need more of that?
Don’t be bloody silly, Rich. But if they have grounds to challenge such claims, I’m not sure the insurance companies would enjoy either the moral high ground or much public sympathy. And judging from the story Steve linked to, many insurance carriers are just going to pay out and not buy themselves a bad PR shit storm.
Anyway, I think a British or European judge would decide that an insurance company, or anyone else, was entitled to the benefit of the law as it’s written, not as interpreted in the light of the parties perceived popularity.
Probably, but I think there might be one or two folks in Hackney who could take a couple of nano-seconds and come up with better uses for a hundred million pounds of public money. Don't think insurance companies socialising their losses while privatising the profits will be too high on the wish list. Because I'm entirely cynical enough to presume any compensation will not be passed on to riot-affected policy holders through premium reductions etc.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Here’s a thought: Just because you can do something, it doesn’t immediately follow that you can.
Which, of course, applies to the looters themselves.
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Islander, in reply to
Tautoko.
I dont know what the current training regime is for Maori Wardens but when I looked at becoming one, 30 years ago, it included an oath to the English queen and the incumbent government, and *3rdly*, the current laws of NZ.
Decided I didnt want to be a pussy.
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