Hard News: Dirty Politics
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shorter nats: yeah, we really are like that, but we don't care, and neither should you
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Thanks, Kracklite. +1 whole infinity.
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I wonder what will happen to ipredict now that it has been shown up as just another tool for manipulation of the message?
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andin, in reply to
fix the system
Where do we start? There is so much wrong with our way of living on this planet much of it coming from our past and we just carry on as if the problem is to big to deal with.
It's not. -
izogi, in reply to
Where do we start?
Good question. I've had some loose thoughts but answering it right now is beyond me.
Really I’d just be keen to see a serious discussion about it, and with political parties engaged and interested in actually committing to making useful changes.
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People behaving like reasonable, responsible, humane adults you mean.
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Hebe, in reply to
I wonder what will happen to ipredict now that it has been shown up as just another tool for manipulation of the message?
Wasn't that obvious before the book?
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Ross Mason, in reply to
I wonder what will happen to ipredict now that it has been shown up as just another tool for manipulation of the message?
I think it shows where $200 can change the odds so much that it suggests that few people actually bet on the bloody site. It has an “apparent” influence far beyond its value..
It shows that the MSM responds to an amazingly small number of people in this world. The one man NZ Assoc of Convenience stores, the bullshit of electoral selection by two people. And finally, two RW bloggers who have been shown to feed more bullshit to such an extent that the MSM consider any comment from them as major news.
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tussock, in reply to
They have to be thinking "oh, that smart, sensible, rich greenie I know, he's the exception, the rest are barmy".
No. They're trying to win elections. They think calling smart, sensible, rich greenies, and all the other kinds, who they know and like and stuff, call them "barmy" is going to help them win elections. Which is their goal.
There's no doublethink involved. There's the real world where they like you and know green policies are good for people, and there's the fantasy story where they don't know any of that and you're a crazy greenie. Like anyone reading fiction, or watching scary movies, they know the fantasy isn't real, but they also think the story might be good enough to shift a few people into voting for them.
George W. Bush knew Iraq didn't have WMDs, he wouldn't have invaded if they did. That wasn't the point. The point was to have a good story on the way to militarily managing the looming oil crisis. For Farrar and co, it's not wars, it's just serving the local elite. Being at the coal face and letting the real movers and shakers keep their hands clean, and if people get hurt, well, that's just sad for them isn't it.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Good question. I've had some loose thoughts but answering it right now is beyond me.
Really I’d just be keen to see a serious discussion about it, and with political parties engaged and interested in actually committing to making useful changes.
It needs more than just another talkfest. Any serious solution would need something on the level of the Leveson or Finkelstein Inquiries, which in this case would probably take the form of a Royal Commission.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
Aaron Gilmore on the revenge trail?
Frankenstein's monster is heading back to the lab, and this time he's bringing the angry village folk with him and helping carry the pitchforks...
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
ruffle trade...
In the interest of fairness and valance...
I like this idea, fairness is always good
and draping fabric to conceal a clunky construction
is so much like National's usual window dressing... -
nzlemming, in reply to
Can we leave the psychiatry to professionals please? As someone who does have an at times debilitating mental illness, I find the jokes rather less than funny.
Exactly. I have that diagnosis myself, and the pills to prove it. It's still not an excuse to behave like a complete arsehole. That's on him. When you're chronically ill, you put in place mechanisms to cope with it, if you are unable to monitor yourself. If you don't, don't expect any sympathy from me.
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nzlemming, in reply to
I wonder what will happen to ipredict now that it has been shown up as just another tool for manipulation of the message?
It was pretty obvious it was being gamed right from the get go. I've used it as a qualifier to discount predictions that mention it.
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nzlemming, in reply to
For Farrar and co, it’s not wars, it’s just serving the local elite. Being at the coal face and letting the real movers and shakers keep their hands clean, and if people get hurt, well, that’s just sad for them isn’t it.
Well said, that grass!
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Mike Hosking is probably still in the lead, but today the 'Herald on Sunday' editorial makes a valiant effort to compete for his crown:
The past few weeks have been marked by an unedifying chant, a cheap racial joke and a book that attempts to smear Key by association with an unsavoury blogger.
Yes, really.
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Dismal Soyanz, in reply to
I've not read the book yet but at least with iPredict if people are trying to manipulate the prices in a systematic way there is an exploitable opportunity (in theory, at least) to make money from them.
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izogi, in reply to
People behaving like reasonable, responsible, humane adults you mean.
That, and maybe some practical things to introduce more effective impartial oversight and constraints on what's done by elected officials and staff, and what happens in parliamentary offices.
Looking at how the OIA (or similar) can be applied to the Parliamentary Service could be a good part of this, but maybe wouldn’t have stopped it from happening given how intent everyone involved seemed to be in not being seen, and the way in which Parliament can systematically cripple the Ombudsman whenever it becomes inconvenient. I guess all of this is also dancing with constitutional issues around letting elected officials and their appointed staff do their jobs properly. Y’know, if they actually intend to do their jobs properly, which I’m sure many do.
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David Hood, in reply to
They don't mind losing money on iPredict. They have money, and want to use that money to buy stories about how well National is doing. Spending $200 on national raising the odds -> seed news story about how well national is doing. Compared to the cost of buying advertising, it is peanuts for the news coverage it generates, and it looks more natural.
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With all this generalised talk about negativity and 'reaction to the' talk - no one it seems.is.actually looking into the substance of the allegations themselves. Are journalists afraid? The Herald skips around this by giving Hager an article but that will do nought to convince anyone already zombified or on the fence. The lack of courage or willingness to find the truth is so depressing. National in full control -really they seem to have every base covered. I was also creeped out by the suggestion of 50 cent gang - with the way everything seems to be so expertly controlled and each potential crisis managed with apparent ease, this idea or some version of it does not seem that far fetched.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Are journalists afraid? The Herald skips around this by giving Hager an article but that will do nought to convince anyone already zombified or on the fence.
Why not jump in there and ask them? I've called them on a couple of things today. That's what the comments section is for! But yes you are correct. It's pathetic.None so blind .....
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
It’s his job to do the distasteful things so that the rest of the guys on his “side” (a side that, admittedly, fluctuates a little) can do what they need to do to win.
We used to call them "Hired Goons"
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stephen clover, in reply to
Ok so it seems I may have been a little less than clear with my thoughts last night. I was trying to reason my way to a position where Slater is not a worthless p.o.s. As everything I have ever read and had reported about his behaviour doesn't really align with what I know about clinical depression, and as someone who's suffered at the wrong end of a misdiagnosis in the past, my logic lead me to a speculation that he's misdiagnosed and mis-medicated and that his life may see significant benefit from seeing a different doctor -- and all that that brings.
Can we leave the psychiatry to professionals please?
But yes, it was more-or-less idle speculation and I should have refrained. Apologies to anyone I upset :/
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Discovery.
Now there's a word.
but nothing like that would happen until after September 20; the public deserves to know the truth before then.
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Alfie, in reply to
I don’t understand what this, form the Herald, actually means. Is it the heralds writing or my reading? It looks as if Dot Com is complaining that Hager and the National party are in car hoots.
It could be read that way, although Dotcom's words appear to have been twisted a little. I suspect it's more a case of clumsy journalism than foul play.
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