Hard News: Dirty Politics
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
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It looks as if Dot Com is complaining that Hager and the National party are in car hoots.
nah but it is poorly worded, (no surprises there, it is "te Herald") Pretty sure DC is suggesting the book reveals info pertinent to National 's smear against him and IMP. To know the source could help him see how deep in shit National are prepared to go.
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Angela Hart, in reply to
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To know the source could help him see how deep in shit National are prepared to go.
Help him prove how deep.
Reminds me of an old palmolive ad www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzmTtusvjR4 -
Email
Let's try that link again
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Fairfax's Kate Shuttleworth is in Tel Aviv with Salter. In Blogging, money and blurred lines she says he was invited to visit by the Israeli government who are paying some of his costs, presumably in return for more positive PR spin. It's full of the now familiar denials from Slater, but the final paragraph is interesting.
While Slater was having his photo taken for this article, a text arrived - from Justice Minister Judith Collins. He wouldn't reveal its content, but exclaimed that it was 4am in New Zealand and wondered out loud what she was doing up.
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So, after four days where are we at? I'm feeling like nothing has changed. We've got the National Party accessing part of the Labour website that was openly accessible. We've got the government ministers having a cozy relationship with a dislikable blogger. And we've got OIA requests getting favourable treatment. To me this amounts to nothing at the end of the day.
The web site access (at least according to the Whale Oil video) was openly available. A little obscure but it was open. Surely it's not unauthorised hacking when you can just type the address into a web browser! I've just recently closed that loophole on a website I have been setting up.
The Labour party might not like it but it was open. I'd be surprised if this would stand up in court and it was arguably in the public interest too (as Whale Oil said "can't secure a web site, not fit for government"). If this does stand up in court as "unauthorised access", I'd be worried about what else might be hacking.
The real message I'm getting here is: hacking Whale Oil's email: good, accessing obscure parts of Labour web site: bad. It's just not a consistent or helpful message.
The government giving favourable treatment to a favourable blogger is also nothing new. Friends talk to friends and information gets passed along. Right or Left. It's what happens. Maybe the scale of it is a little worse here but is there anything illegal going on here? Is this anything that other parties haven't done?
The more dodgy one here is the OIA requests. It looks like the government departments are complicit according to this Ruminator article: http://ruminator.co.nz/the-official-information-act-cam-and-me/ If there are departments forcing OIA requests through in half an hour then that's a systemic problem rather than a National Party problem. We've got no evidence Labour weren't doing that same thing.
Maybe it's worth changing the law so that OIA requests will take at least a day and all OIA requests and responses will be immediately published on the department web site. This would help to resolve some of these issues.
Admittedly I haven't read the book and there are probably things that I'm missing here. My initial excitement has died down a little and I'm coming back to reality.
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“I haven’t read the book and I have a bunch of opinions”.
[Seriously, why not just go read the book? It's quite short! Hager's pretty good at telling a story. It's quite an easy read.]
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
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We used to call them “Hired Goons”
...and occasionally 'gunsels'...
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Email
[Seriously, why not just go read the book? It’s quite short! Hager’s pretty good at telling a story. It’s quite an easy read.]
Yes , this!
alsoprobably things that I’m missing here. My initial excitement has died down a little and I’m coming back to reality.
Yep missing everything right there. If it's excitement that you need, maybe House of Cards or Scandal, (a few murders there to get gleeful about although Key has condoned killing a NZer in another country for no other reason than it's the U.S so that's ok, collateral damage an'all) but the reality that you are getting back to is that this Government have stooped to the lowest of low to achieve an agenda that is not in the interest of the NZ Public, (their employer). That may be acceptable to some but I'll never believe we are fodder beside the cows and sheep to be chewed up and spat out with disgust as National seem to be doing.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
Admittedly I haven’t read the book and there are probably things that I’m missing here. My initial excitement has died down a little and I’m coming back to reality.
There used to be these people back in the 90s who the most pressing issue in their lives seemed to be that they couldn't get takeaway in containers like they saw on Seinfeld. Horribly, they appear to have procreated. Ain't a terminally self-absorbed fanboy a wonderful thing,
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JLM, in reply to
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For heaven's sake, we don't all have to march in lockstep here!
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I'm frankly amazed that anyone with a functional brain thinks that (a) we have evidence that one side were doing this, and (b) we have no evidence that the other side weren't doing this, actually leads to the conclusion that (c) both sides are as bad as each other.
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I see on the TM messageboard that Slater's followers there are reporting that a king hit will be posted on Whaleoil at 6pm today.
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It needs more than just another talkfest. Any serious solution would need something on the level of the Leveson or Finkelstein Inquiries, which in this case would probably take the form of a Royal Commission
I'm sorry I don't mean to have a go at your particular post there are many others in a similar vein posted in here & I find it frustrating that so many people appear to refuse to live in the real world.
Leveson is not a good example to make for advocating anything. If you have been paying attention you will see that the englander newspaper proprietors stymied Leveson's recommendations preventing them from being implemented - now or ever.All the major englander political parties have gone along with the editors' traducing of democracy - nothing scares those pollies more than an angry Mirror, Sun, or even Daily Fail editor.
Sure chief labour Derp and wanna be king Eddy the egret Milliband, has made a fuss, pushing for some of the least effective recommendations, but he knows nothing will come of it. Doubtless he hopes the fish-wraps' owners won't take it too personal - they will comprehend that he has to be seen to oppose nasty Dave Cameron. In the tweedledee Vs tweedledum phoney war of the neo-libs.I just cannot get my head around the dream world so many of us live in.
The rights that Kiwis ceded with a casual tick in the ballot box were rights hard won after centuries of fighting against oppression -they cannot be got back nearly as easily as they were given away.
It is frankly ludicrous to expect the fixed game so called democracy has become, can do much more than slighly reduce the velocity with which the bulk of kiwis are being reduced to powerless cyphers.Some of the problem may be that we attained many of these rights (eg universal suffrage, equality of opportunity) by killing and oppressing the indigenous population, not by fighting & defeating the seat of power and those who sought to keep us under their heel.
There was no established seat of power in Aotearoa in the 19th century. There was just the vacuum created by destruction of Tangata Whenua society, people & culture.
Many Kiwis just don't see that the sacrifice and hardship endured by others was what enabled most of us to get that which has since been so carelessly forfeited since.
Of course not all our freedoms came from the barrel of guns pointed at Tangata Whenua - some resulted from guns pointed at young kiwis of all races including Maori, during WW1.Many thousands of Kiwis learned the reality of the iron fist beneath the velvet glove courtesy of WW1.
Of course not all returned servicemen or the families of the fallen agreed with that perspective.Yet following WW1 angry, disillusioned & distrustful citizens pushed hard to change the ways power was wielded in Aotearoa as well as the people who wielded it. They did so to prevent a recurrence of the situation where NZ citizens got treated as disposable units.
A direct upshot was increased support for the NZ Labour Party as it was then.
Yet here we are replaceable economic units once more and the Labour Party played no small role in the reversion.This year, the 100th anniversary of the Great War, has seen considerable revisionismof the causes of WW1 & motives of those who advocated for that horror show.
In a typical "Double Rule" style of the neo-libs young people's genuine respect for what the diggers achieved is being used as the force to push for the over-turn of what many of the returned soldiers had fought for.
The reason I am peddling this 'War & Peace' of a post is not to be a 'wet blanket' attempting to rain on the Nicky Hager parade, but in the possibly forlorn hope that some will realise if change is to be effected, a vastly different approach than merely trying to shame the egocentric scuzzbags who have stolen our nation into submission, is required.
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James George, in reply to
It needs more than just another talkfest. Any serious solution would need something on the level of the Leveson or Finkelstein Inquiries, which in this case would probably take the form of a Royal Commission
I'm sorry I don't mean to have a go at your particular post there are many others in a similar vein posted in here & I find it frustrating that so many people appear to refuse to live in the real world.
Leveson is not a good example to make for advocating anything. If you have been paying attention you will see that the englander newspaper proprietors stymied Leveson's recommendations preventing them from being implemented - now or ever.All the major englander political parties have gone along with the editors' traducing of democracy - nothing scares those pollies more than an angry Mirror, Sun, or even Daily Fail editor.
Sure chief labour Derp and wanna be king Eddy the egret Milliband, has made a fuss, pushing for some of the least effective recommendations, but he knows nothing will come of it. Doubtless he hopes the fish-wraps' owners won't take it too personal - they will comprehend that he has to be seen to oppose nasty Dave Cameron. In the tweedledee Vs tweedledum phoney war of the neo-libs.I just cannot get my head around the dream world so many of us live in.
The rights that Kiwis ceded with a casual tick in the ballot box were rights hard won after centuries of fighting against oppression -they cannot be got back nearly as easily as they were given away.
It is frankly ludicrous to expect the fixed game so called democracy has become, can do much more than slighly reduce the velocity with which the bulk of kiwis are being reduced to powerless cyphers.Some of the problem may be that we attained many of these rights (eg universal suffrage, equality of opportunity) by killing and oppressing the indigenous population, not by fighting & defeating the seat of power and those who sought to keep us under their heel.
There was no established seat of power in Aotearoa in the 19th century. There was just the vacuum created by destruction of Tangata Whenua society, people & culture.
Many Kiwis just don't see that the sacrifice and hardship endured by others was what enabled most of us to get that which has since been so carelessly forfeited since.
Of course not all our freedoms came from the barrel of guns pointed at Tangata Whenua - some resulted from guns pointed at young kiwis of all races including Maori, during WW1.Many thousands of Kiwis learned the reality of the iron fist beneath the velvet glove courtesy of WW1.
Not all returned servicemen or the families of the fallen agreed with that perspective.Yet following WW1 angry, disillusioned & distrustful citizens pushed hard to change the ways power was wielded in Aotearoa as well as the people who wielded it. They did so to prevent a recurrence of the situation where NZ citizens got treated as disposable units.
A direct upshot was increased support for the NZ Labour Party as it was then.
Yet here we are replaceable economic units once more and the Labour Party played no small role in the reversion.This year, the 100th anniversary of the Great War, has seen considerable revisionismof the causes of WW1 & motives of those who advocated for that horror show.
In a typical "Double Rule" style of the neo-libs young people's genuine respect for what the diggers achieved is being used as the force to push for the over-turn of what many of the returned soldiers had fought for.
The reason I am peddling this 'War & Peace' of a post is not to be a 'wet blanket' attempting to rain on the Nicky Hager parade, but in the possibly forlorn hope that some will realise if change is to be effected, a vastly different approach than merely trying to shame the egocentric scuzzbags who have stolen our nation into submission, is required.
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Steve Parks, in reply to
The Labour party might not like it but it was open. I’d be surprised if this would stand up in court and it was arguably in the public interest too (as Whale Oil said “can’t secure a web site, not fit for government”). If this does stand up in court as “unauthorised access”, I’d be worried about what else might be hacking.
Michael, Labour aren’t saying the site was hacked. Here is the claim…
Author Nicky Hager claims in his book Dirty Politics that Key adviser Jason Ede and Whale Oil blogger Cameron Slater conspired over information relating to Labour Party membership details, including credit card records, after a security flaw was discovered on the Labour website in 2011.
An analogy would be the difference between breaking into someone’s house (“hacking”), and walking into someone’s house because they accidentally left the door open.
And illegal or not, John Key denied this had anything to do with the National party. This has proven to be false.
Oh, and if all they had wanted to do was point out that Labour hadn't properly secured their website, then they could have just, you know, done that.
Source for quote: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10391270/National-hacked-us-Cunliffe
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nzlemming, in reply to
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Are journalists afraid?
Probably. With the revelations in the book, who knows what Slater has on them?
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nzlemming, in reply to
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We used to call them “Hired Goons”
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nzlemming, in reply to
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My not professional opinion, is that Graham McCready and Cameron slater are more or less the same beast.
I'd dispute that. McCready seems to actually believe in accountability, he's just a little misguided in how to get it. Slater, I feel, doesn't believe in anything, except his tribe winning.
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can't secure a web site, not fit for government
I heard also that John Key can't catch a ball and Don Brash's cooking leaves a lot to be desired.
Why would non-political skills be a requirement for government?
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An analogy would be the difference between breaking into someone’s house (“hacking”), and walking into someone’s house because they accidentally left the door open
Graeme will correct me if I'm wrong, but in NZ, if you intended to steal stuff (or commit any other imprisonable offence) it's burglary whether or not the door was open.
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Rich,
Yeah that was my thinking too. If you go out and accidentally leave the door wide open and someone walks in to your house and steels stuff, they haven't broken into your house, but they've still committed a crime. I'm not sure how well that matches (in terms of the law) with the apparent actions of Slater and Jordan.
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Alfie, in reply to
I'm not sure how well that matches (in terms of the law) with the apparent actions of Slater and Jordan
I believe it was actually Slater and Ede. Stealing credit card information, regardless of intention, is usually frowned upon in NZ. Can we expect a serious Police investigation over this matter?
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Oh, good god! Direct from the "keep slinging mud and see who it hits" department, Slater has just firmly accused Dotcom of hacking his computer. Given Nicky Hagar's statement on Q&A that Dotcom was "absolutely categorically" not the source, one would expect that Slater has just exposed himself to a rather substantial defamation claim.
Dotcom has tweeted, branding Slater a "right wing conspiracy theorist".
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Steve Parks, in reply to
I believe it was actually Slater and Ede.
Oops, sorry, yes Slater and Ede, as per the quotation I used!
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