Hard News: Democracy Night
773 Responses
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Christopher Nimmo, in reply to
in part two 46.66 per cent supported FPP as the most preferred alternative.
Bit misleading, given 748,000 informal votes!
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Of the other two confirmed Govt parties, ACT got less votes than Mana dropping from 85,496 to 23.889 and the Peter Dunne Party got pretty much the same as the Bill and Ben Party did last time - 13,443 to 13,016 which would be a joke if he hadn't been given so much by Key.
Great that MMP is retained, needs to be changed to stop the Key/Banks/Dunne behaviour of this time round though - any solutions?
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Sacha, in reply to
Bit misleading, given 748,000 informal votes!
Quite. Voters managed to find a 'no confidence' option
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National received 5,240 more votes than in 2008
National+ACT+UF received 63,421 votes less than in 2008.Labour received 171,944 less votes than in 2008
Labour+Greens+NZF received 40,000 votes less than in 2008. -
BenWilson, in reply to
Quite. Voters managed to find a 'no confidence' option
Most people I've spoken to who voted this way did so because they wanted MMP and it wasn't one of the options. It did rather annoy me how bloody minded these people were, given that there was a small chance that the system could have bloody well changed back to FPP. There were 3 other better systems, although, yes, none as good as MMP, IMHO. Essentially, they were too lazy to think about it.
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BenWilson, in reply to
Great that MMP is retained, needs to be changed to stop the Key/Banks/Dunne behaviour of this time round though - any solutions?
There's a few solutions, although an obvious one even without reform is for the left to simply do the same damned thing. Endorse an ex-Labour candidate in a new party, let's call it the "Center Left Party", advising Labour voters to split. With a few of these in the Labour strongholds, Epsom is neutralized.
I'd rather this didn't happen, because it is ridiculous and would cause overhangs, but if ACT is going to continue playing this game with National...
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Or we could say that it's not a problem. Both parties got enough votes to merit a seat.
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stephen walker, in reply to
not sure what you mean by this. United Future were nowhere near getting a list seat even if there were no threshold.
UF: 13,443 party votes
total party votes counted: 2,257,336
divide that by 121 to get: 18,655
Act got exactly what they deserved this time, from a proportionality point of view.
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no one got the electorate seat exemption from the 5% threshold this time. that exemption should be chucked out. the threshold should be halved to 2.5% imho.
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Richard Grevers, in reply to
Just after the election Key said, I think, that under an FPP system, National would have got 65 seats and labour 35.
If we had stuck with FPP in 1996, the formula which determines the number of electorates (based on a South Island quota) would have meant more than 130 MPs by now. Which is why it annoys me so that for some people their sole motive for voting against MMP is that we have “too many MPs”.
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Sacha, in reply to
we have “too many MPs”
another measure of the right's success in pushing over many years the notion that government is a problem
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I am really pleased about the margin of victory for Option 1, however you play it, it is solid, thumping even, support for MMP
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Haere mai na MOJO!
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Graeme Edgeler, in reply to
If we had stuck with FPP in 1996, the formula which determines the number of electorates (based on a South Island quota) would have meant more than 130 MPs by now
Not nearly that many. More than the 99 we had, certainly, but under 120.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
we have “too many MPs”
another measure of the right’s success in pushing over many years the notion that government is a problem
Especially droll when coupled with "catch up with Australia", the land of multiple multi-level parliaments.
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HenryB, in reply to
Yes. In 1993 the vote for MMP was 54%.
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Sacha, in reply to
the land of multiple multi-level parliaments
and tripartite wage bargaining
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I imagine it depends whether you're talking about child support for otherwise working parents or the DPB - they are different things, right?
The government doesn't recover anything when its a working parent, only when it's on the DPB.
divide that by 121 to get: 18,655
You don't divide each list seat evenly. The Sainte Laguë method means that the first list seat is much easier to get than that. The first one kicks in at about 0.6% of the vote, the second at about 1.4%?
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stephen walker, in reply to
0.6% of the total vote counted would have been 13,544.
UF got 13,443 party votes. -
And Mana.... soooo close to getting Annette Sykes into parliament. I did want to see that!
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Islander, in reply to
Prediction: next election Mana will absorb the Maori party and we will have a true Maori-responsive labour-oriented(that is, working people & family oriented) party to vote for.
Hey, I was right with my *2 surprises from the south* eh?
Tho' I must admit to being totalled by the abstaining phuqing voters - I never thought ANZers would do that...
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Graeme Edgeler, in reply to
The first one kicks in at about 0.6% of the vote, the second at about 1.4%?
The first one kicks in at about 0.41%, second at about 1.21% (depending on the size of the wasted vote).
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stephen walker, in reply to
so with no threshold ALCP would have got one seat?
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