Field Theory: The Undertaker is Hamlet
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You could definitely say that Mahe Drysdale's road to an olympic medal was dramatic (rowing off against Waddell, Waddell's heart condition, Drysdale carrying the flag, catching Beijing belly, coming back for bronze). I don't know if that makes it art.
The delicate art of making a yacht go fast could be interpreted as an art, I suppose.
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Rhythmic gymnastics is certainly art. Did anyone see the three hoops and two batons routine by the Russians? It defied belief.
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Art ans port are both cultural activities and so bear some similarity.
Two factors to consider: the act of creation and intent.
In many sports there is limited scope for creativity. Aside from variations of regulating body function that much of an audience wouldn't noticea 200 metre race doesn't allow for diversion from type. Alternatively, rugby, although have set pieces, has great scope for creative actions in open running play.
Does the intention to create something other than crossing a notional divide, placing a ball like so and score so many points occur much in sport? And should it matter? Certainly we treat artifacts as aesthetically pleasing regardless of having no knowledge of what their makers thought they were creating.
So I think we can say Doug Howlett leap dead straight dive over opposition to place the ball precisely 1 millimetre from the sideline balletic. But jumping on a car's bonnet was a more personal expression and certainly quite a performance.
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rugby, although have set pieces, has great scope for creative actions in open running play.
There is arguably just as much scope for creativity at the lineout or in the front row of a scrum; certainly, there is more scope for creativity at the breakdown.
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You’d have to be a soulless peasant not to appreciate the art in Shane Warne’s flipper.
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And if Warne’s flipper is not enough, check out the first 3 minutes of the 1974 FIFA World Cup final.
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Two factors to consider: the act of creation and intent.
that definition makes more sense.
Shane Warne’s flipper
his what?
And if Warne’s flipper is not enough, check out the first 3 minutes of the 1974 FIFA World Cup final.
youtube link?
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*eyes dart around the room*
thinks......am I in the wrong place
*takes a long pull on a tumbler of vodka martini*Sure if you sports guys want the now debased form of communal fun and exercise to now be considered art, hey go ahead.
But, how about, if you want sportists to now be considered artists, they apply for arts grants and hand any money they get from, ya know those sponsor types, I think they are human? (not sure tho') to those formerly known as artists. And the former artists get all the broadcasting time formerly dedicated to now sportists/artists.
*Takes another long pull on vodka martini, eyes firmly fixed on exit and waits for the anticipated OTT artistic reaction *
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Most of us would agree I agree I think that there is an aesthetic aspect in sports, made up of all those moments that make us go "that was beautiful". And if there is beauty, is it natural (like, say, mount Tongariro, or the shape of Marlene Ottey's face) or is it artificial, that is to say created by people in a controlled environment? If we're talking about the latter, there's your art in sports, be it Warney's flipper or a Michel Platini free kick or Marlene Ottey's dash to the finish line.
There was plenty of art in those dives from the 10m platform in the last day of the olympics I thought.
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For anyone who thinks wrestling is not art!
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Ren,
If a man runs the 100m in 9.69 seconds is that art? What if he does it in front of an audience?
What if he runs in an art gallery?
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The definition of sport needs some clarification. Originally sports were manly activities outside the scope of fighting wars and raising crops. Grouse shooting, salmon fishing, tiger hunting etc. "What Ho! Good shot old chap!!"
What we call sports are actually activities the sporting crowd would refer to as games.
Games have the purpose of determining winners and losers (preferably without too many fatalities). That is what separates it from art. There may be awards won for art, but that is not (usually) the purpose for which the activity was undertaken.
To me, sports/games cannot be art because they involve direct competition.
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What if he runs in an art gallery?
Thanks Ren, I wanted to find a link for that
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To me, sports/games cannot be art because they involve direct competition.
Kapa haka competitions? Dance offs? People competing to be more artistic than each other, while retaining technical skill.
*eyes dart around the room*
thinks......am I in the wrong place
*takes a long pull on a tumbler of vodka martini*No, not the wrong place at all. I would hope that someone would come along and say "no, fuck off, sport is not art". Although why are you drinking martinis from a tumbler?
But, how about, if you want sportists to now be considered artists, they apply for arts grants and hand any money they get from, ya know those sponsor types, I think they are human? (not sure tho') to those formerly known as artists. And the former artists get all the broadcasting time formerly dedicated to now sportists/artists.
I wasn't claiming that sport was art. And I definitely don't want sports to take arts money, nor vice-versa. Funny though that you don't seem to consider musicians to be artists because I would argue that they get as much broadcast time as sports.
I think I was trying to bring the two areas closer together and take a look at that weird part of the Venn diagram where sport and art overlap.
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Kapa haka competitions? Dance offs? People competing to be more artistic than each other, while retaining technical skill.
Dancing with the Stars...? Neither art nor sport. Merely spectacle.
I only stated that sports/games as we understand them are not art. If you partake in artistic activities for competitive purposes, you are no longer creating art but are in fact playing games.
All strictly my opinion, of course.
Now ask me my opinion on "What is art?". I basically agree with Scot Macleod's definition but with few provisos. Under his definition, getting completely trolleyed is art. There are probably arguments for that from Dunedin scarfies...
But that's a whole different thread...
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...with a few provisos..
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There is a case for and against sport being art, I believe.
On the one hand, the great events can occasionally reach such a level of high drama that the whole thing becomes more than the sum of it's sporting parts. The one that stands out for me in recent memory was the 2005 Champions League Final between Liverpool and AC Milan. Two clubs with pedigree and their own histories and culture brought such a weight to the occasion and the events on the pitch surpassed anything a script writer might have made up. What happened that night will never be forgotten by footie fans, even if you don't support those teams.
On the other hand, sports follow pre-defined rules that must be adhered to whereas great art often breaks the rules to create something new.
I'm no fan of opera, I just don't get it, but huge sporting events with uncertainty, drama and high quality performance feels kind of the same to me as what people might get out opera, ballet etc...
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Depends on whether Art is solely in the eye of the beholder, or the intent of the performer counts for something.
Imagine three blokes watching a pack of stray dogs harass a mob of sheep on the opposite hill. The farmer sees events from an economic perspective. The animal rights activist sees cruelty and suffering. Only the artist sees a swirling mass of colour and form, sometimes regular, with sudden jolts of randomness, ebbing and flowing like the foam on a West Coast beach. Or some such. Give each bloke a video camera and one will produce evidence, the next propaganda, and the last Art. But the dogs and sheep are just acting on instinct. (Or more to the point, they're not 'acting' at all).
Plenty of art has been produced by pointing cameras at the Olympics, but that doesn’t mean sport=art.Usain Bolt's artistic contributions to the Games may have begun before the finish line, but this was still after his real objective had been achieved.
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And computer games?
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No, not the wrong place at all. I would hope that someone would come along and say "no, fuck off, sport is not art".
Wot, no analysis of the points table of the tri-nations with predictions for the weekend and thoughts on what needs to happen for the ABs to finish tops?
No response to the scrapping of the cricket in Pakistan?
No 'top two' list of "teams that are going to be cut from the Air NZ Cup but are still performing better than Waikato"?
Danny Lee? Going to be NZ's best ever golfer, or just flash in the pan kids stuff?
Warriors - finals bound or not?
What sort of pansy-arsed 'sport/art' sports blog is this anyway? Man...
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Depends on whether Art is solely in the eye of the beholder, or the intent of the performer counts for something.
I quite agree. Though I think the Usain Bolt is a good example of athlete as artist.
World records and medals seemed to be second to him enjoying running fast and showing off how fast he could run (at least if his press conferences could be believed). His intent it seemed was just to show people how fast he (and human beings) could run.
Ronaldinho is another who, I think, fits that mold. He grins the whole time as he plays with the ball and shows off the amazing things he does.
And while he may not be an "artist" Chad Johnson is definitely an entertainer.
What happens after the Touchdown? Art. -
Wot, no analysis of the points table of the tri-nations with predictions for the ...
What sort of pansy-arsed 'sport/art' sports blog is this anyway? Man...
Cut me some slack dude, I had a flu :)
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Danny Lee? Going to be NZ's best ever golfer, or just flash in the pan kids stuff?
Not sure Danny Lee will be the best NZ golfer. More likely to be the best golfer Korea ever had (if they let him on the US tour).
I liked the Waikato jibe Kyle.
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Cut me some slack dude, I had a flu :)
You had flu and you spent time thinking "when is sport art?". *peers*
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Would of gotten back to you sooner but had terrible back pain turns out I have kidney stones. So I wont be doing any art till I get shot of the thing.
Drinking from a tumbler, yes, I needed to heavily fortify my resolve.
But you may call it dutch courage, always wondered why it was called that.
Hey you want to cut into the muso's money you go talk to them.Any way Flipper hell take Skippy as well, you know what that saying is.
Aquatic mammals or Marsupials either way dont care. Although I've always wanted to get hold of a pair of those stunt paws for a work.And now this wrestling thing, I know discernment in the art world is sometimes a minefield, but I thought it is pretty obvious that 10th rate theatrics and a fan base in the US heartland would pretty much make it obvious that this is not even borderline. And the pomp and circumstance around wrestlers is more reminiscent of descriptions of the Second Coming.
HEY! now there's an idea why not hook up with a religion, shit any one would do that would solve the cash flow problems now that artist are getting the sports money, religions are rolling in it tho' they are notorious for pleading poverty. But once those holy rollers got a glimpse of all that buff flesh they will be all aquiver and youse artistes will be able to just about do anything you want.
Sorry am I being facetious.
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