Envirologue by Dave Hansford

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Envirologue: Multi-no-choice – National’s Idea of Climate Consultation

25 Responses

  • Mick Buckley,

    Meanwhile, government owned Landcorp continues to convert carbon absorbing forests into methane belching dairy farms.

    Northland • Since Aug 2014 • 7 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Mick Buckley,

    and to transfer NZ farming knowledge to vertically-integrated Chinese corporate agri-businesses.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19573 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3166 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    It's also interesting that for a government so quick to tout it's innovation (snort) policies they are clearly don't believe New Zealand could contribute at all to global innovation in the energy and global warming fields.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4431 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Johnson,

    Also the Government has no intention of reducing GHG emissions in it's 5% by 2020 target. They intend to "meet" the target through creative accounting with dubious carbon credits.
    See NZ’s emissions target scam – Groser & Co’s creative accounting exposed

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    except the joint research into agri emissions which buys time before farmers need to get off their chuffs.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19573 posts Report Reply

  • st ephen,

    I agree that the Consultation document is a bit of a joke, presumably designed to generate a public mandate for the current government's do-nothing policy.
    And yet... There is still some truth in what the document says, and perhaps we shouldn't beat ourselves up too much in comparisons with the EU. We do have a relatively high proportion of renewable energy already, high population growth, high agriculture emissions, and low population density. If we were to join the EU all our stats would just merge into the background (and we'd benefit from modernisation in the former-Eastern bloc countries without having to buy dodgy credits).

    dunedin • Since Jul 2008 • 253 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to st ephen,

    if we continue behaving like we are, places like the EU will be able to use our foot-dragging to block our exports.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19573 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Sacha,

    if we continue behaving like we are, places like the EU will be able to use our foot-dragging to block our exports.

    And I suspect that it may not force the guilty parties’ arse into gear. More likely they’d go Tea Party on anything and anyone that looks European. And ‘freedom fries’ and sledge-hammering European cars would probably be just the start.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5399 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    *raised eyebrow* You really think National are quite that fruitbat?

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1830 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to linger,

    *raised eyebrow* You really think National are quite that fruitbat?

    I'm not just talking about political leaders, but also the wider denialist movement. If Owen McShane was still around, he'd definitely fit the bill. And has anyone noticed that many denialists also happen to have a Huntington-ian Clash of Civilisations world-view? In other words, the kind of people who think Muslims are nothing more than the new Soviets.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5399 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to linger,

    You really think National are quite that fruitbat?

    It's a difficult question. Certainly National and the PMs office seem to have an uncertain relationship with facts. Whether that would extend to blaming a whole continent for their own inactions is up for debate.

    However, the lack of attachment to the real world and the ability to deny the existence of anything that disagrees with their ideology does suggest certifiable fruitbattyness.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4431 posts Report Reply

  • st ephen, in reply to Sacha,

    places like the EU will be able to use our foot-dragging to block our exports

    Sure, they'll use that as an excuse, while they continue to subsidise their own agriculture regardless of its greenhouse gas efficiency. Whereas if we were part of the EU they'd be right beside us pleading our special circumstances, and accepting that our Agriculture sector emissions are going to be high on a per capita basis because we're not just growing food for our own domestic population.

    dunedin • Since Jul 2008 • 253 posts Report Reply

  • Amanda Wreckonwith,

    The same old thinly-veiled “this is going to cost ya” threats

    Sadly, until everyone reading this post accepts that responding to climate change IS going to 'cost us', we are pretty much cooked.

    Since Sep 2012 • 171 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Amanda Wreckonwith,

    .... Missing the point that not responding is likely to cost us more (even in the short term).

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1830 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie, in reply to Amanda Wreckonwith,

    Sadly, until everyone reading this post accepts that responding to climate change IS going to 'cost us', we are pretty much cooked.

    I'd like to think that most PA readers (with the notable exception of Stomper) accept that immediate action is needed to prevent catastrophic climate change.

    Powerwall
    However welcome Musk’s Powerwall may be, it doesn't yet offer a practical answer to the storage problem. The 7kWh Powerwall only outputs 2kWh -- not enough to run an oven and a heater at the same time. Musk's larger 10kWh system is only designed for 50 cycles per year, so it's really just an emergency backup. Sure... you can string multiple 7kWh units together, but then the cost becomes prohibitive.

    As the proud owner of a 4kWh grid-tied solar system I'd love to own an affordable storage solution -- but at this stage it's not likely to be a Powerwall.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1343 posts Report Reply

  • Amanda Wreckonwith, in reply to linger,

    …. Missing the point that not responding is likely to cost us more (even in the short term).

    I didn't miss the point. I just find that many people have no idea of the step change we have to make in order to actually make a difference in the long term. We have a massively indebted economy based on agriculture and extractive industries with a bit of tourism thrown in for bad measure.
    Changing NZ to a low carbon economy must happen and happen quickly. Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy night.

    Since Sep 2012 • 171 posts Report Reply

  • Amanda Wreckonwith, in reply to Alfie,

    immediate action is needed to prevent catastrophic climate change.

    Catastrophic?
    Yikes! Stomper will be stirring from his fossil fuelled slumber as we speak...

    Since Sep 2012 • 171 posts Report Reply

  • Dan Salmon,

    Sadly, I don't think New Zealanders are really worried about Climate Change:

    "Just over half (53%) agree that there is a scientific consensus on climate change."

    http://www.sciencemediacentre.co.nz/2015/05/15/nz-climate-attitudes-survey-expert-reaction/

    Auckland • Since Mar 2011 • 39 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell, in reply to Alfie,

    Yeah - we'd love to kiss the 16 lead-acid beasties in the garage g'bye. But sadly the 'powerwall' seems more wall than power.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2083 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Rowe,

    I've been involved in this climate change stuff in one form or another since 1990 and I can't believe it's taken me so long to realise that the politicians are going to do Jack. Nothing, nada, nought. Everyone just needs to make the changes for themselves and maybe the early adopters will be slightly better off - you know, get some solar in, water tanks, get the Hell away from the coast and floodplains and so on.

    Anyone familiar with global dimming will also realise that all that pollution contributing to greenhouse effects also dims some incoming heat. When the pollution gets cut, the heat ramps up. It's a real doosey of a Catch 22.

    So shut the stable door and do all you can - but the horse is a hell of a long way down the track.

    NZ • Since Apr 2015 • 27 posts Report Reply

  • Stamper Stamp, in reply to Dan Salmon,

    Hi Dan
    Re: http://www.sciencemediacentre.co.nz/2015/05/15/nz-climate-attitudes-survey-expert-reaction/

    “....why has there has been a shift in opinion (a drop from 75% of New Zealanders thinking climate change an urgent or immediate problem in 2008 to only 53% in 2012)? “

    Because, 30 years of crying wolf continues to sound more and more hollow.

    For example the desecration of the British country side with useless windmills has been a factor in the Tories winning another 5 year term. Now they are turning off the windmill subsidy tap, and kick starting fracking.

    Enjoy the inter-glacial - S S

    Auckland • Since Feb 2014 • 27 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    Yeah - we'd love to kiss the 16 lead-acid beasties in the garage g'bye. But sadly the 'powerwall' seems more wall than power.

    So effectively it's an extra large UPS.

    As for our old friend Stamper, I'm calling it. That he's a Big Oil shill.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5399 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    Point is though, this is the work of the Ministry for the Environment. They are supposed to provide the Minister (and the nation, as this is a public consultation paper) with apolitical, objective advice regarding options. Not multi-no-choice, as the title so aptly suggests.

    I would like to see the specific instructions given to the Ministry by the Minister in relation to this work - as frankly, the Minister is, I believe, forcing a very bad look on them. And he's making them do the community consultation - I assume, expecting them to take the heat and criticism in attempting to defend the indefensible.

    If I had to front up to a public meeting and defend this - I'd probably take out a PG against the Minister.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 797 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody,

    Easy way to make a submission - great initiative by Generation Zero;

    http://www.fixourfuture.nz/

    Spread the word :-).

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 797 posts Report Reply

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