Up Front: The Up-Front Guides: The Weasel Translator
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.... but I have to say "emotive piece of legislation muddying the waters " is pretty patronising.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
To give Louisa the benefit of the doubt, I have my doubts Louisa Wall is a Zurich Gnome sleeper agent and isn't the whole point of the member's ballot so the order paper isn't absolutely determined by the legislative agenda of the government of the day?
Hell, I'm supposed to be the house cynic and I'm the one with a touching faith in the human ability to multi-task? This is really fucking with my rep, people. Stop it. :)
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Not directly at Craig but….
I have no prob with multitasking. Lots of us seem capable but/and many get pretty precious for want of a better noun but she is on sabbatical so..
I don’t think there was malice/patronising meant . This should have passed many years ago, without thought, this is obvious, why question?
Kracklite,
I’m defending Steve because I know him and many don’t see his raw belief. It is no issue to protect the rights of all people. Make it so.
And why not save our infrastructure instead, for all of us? It’s not about those of us that can continue to afford to pay, it’s about those that cant.
And not because we can afford to defend/ pay for them, It’s so they can afford / defend to live
That’s the wonderful thing about the Olympics. Someone will get them there if they should be. One sees that in spades even if they don’t feed the starving.
Really, cant we all agree that this is a no brainer, pass the bill, everyone is equal, yay, and get on with saving the poor and destitute. so we can all live in harmony for eternity.
Ok drinking, philosophical, but if you asked me tomorrow , I’d say the same flowery stuff sober.
Now, moving on, gotta say, the athletes in the running today. The most stunning chicks in the world. Gorgeous, powerful, stunning watch. :) -
I think it's a biggie,. and well worth our attention, and I've been married (to a man) for 22, or actually closer to 23, years now. Yes, there are plenty of issues that we (meaning me) could be working on, but this is one of them. And it matters, both for the people who will be directly affected by it, and for all of us who think that relationships between people of the same gender should be able to be visible in exactly the same way as relationships between people of differing genders. It's about creating a fairer and better society, little bit by little bit.
Also, the "get to the back of the queue" trope is so wretchedly familiar to women. I don't want to see it deployed against other marginalised people too.
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Kracklite, in reply to
I’m defending Steve
I don't wish to attack Steve, really. I'm sure he's speaking in good faith.
And why not save our infrastructure instead
This I find incomprehensible - why is it "instead"?
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Also, the “get to the back of the queue” trope is so wretchedly familiar to women. I don’t want to see it deployed against other marginalised people too.
But why look at this as "wretchedly familiar to woman"? Craig has expressed for a long time how it effects/affects him. Surely this is the human race. All I was saying , (and agreeing with Steve), can we please save our water, our electricity for all nz people , at the same time as, support for the bill to a local MP. Who otherwise do we need to convince for the sake of the law to be passed?
I have no time for queues. We should be all equal. -
Kracklite, in reply to
can we please save our water, our electricity for all nz people , at the same time as, support for the bill to a local MP. Who otherwise do we need to convince for the sake of the law to be passed?
Indeed you’ll have no disagreement from me or many others here, but why on earth then is it even by implication being made a matter of relative priorities? At the very least could asset sales be made a topic for another thread?
Sorry, it's late and really, I'm sure there's no fundamental disagreement here.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
This I find incomprehensible – why is it “instead”?
Yes, fair enough. I just don't know why it is questionable at all. For me it's a no brainer. Pass it. I'll support. Everyone in my life from birth to now is equal to me. My family, a bit odd. But so many kind people that have wonderful lives. Without living it, I guess some dont understand that equality completes.
Incomprhensible? Bit backward perhaps.
The fact actually is we are losing.
The fact about certificates of "Marriage" will happen. If our water goes , can we drink? -
Kracklite, in reply to
:)
I'm just concerned that paleoleftists such as Trotter will deliberately use the chimera of "identity politics" to make false priorities or choices between unrelated progressive concerns in order to preserve their own privileges.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
paleoleftists such as Trotter
Trotter (who I like) says all sorts of shit I dont agree with. He aint a majority . He, is just loud. ;)
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
I don’t think there was malice/patronising meant
Oh, totally not. If I thought Steve was, then everyone around here knows I'm quite capable of reducing a harmless thread to a radioactive wasteland where only the roaches survive. :) But hell, Deborah's got a point -- one of the nice things about PAS is the awesome women (including you, Sofie) who have reminded me with some force that "lady stuff" might not mean a lot to me. Hell, it might even make be hard to hear, let alone engage with without being an entitled, male-privileged cock. But there's half the human race who'd not only beg to differ but have every right to demand a place at all the tables.
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Emma Hart, in reply to
Really, cant we all agree that this is a no brainer, pass the bill, everyone is equal, yay, and get on with saving the poor and destitute. so we can all live in harmony for eternity.
Well, no we can't, not yet, because we still don't have the numbers. Would it be okay if we actually kept fighting until we'd won? Because we haven't. This isn't a no-brainer.
And in the meantime, no-one is stopping anyone from doing anything about water, or welfare, or anything else. How many of those National MPs said exactly that, that they couldn't be bothered forming an opinion about this, because they had important things to think about?
I think it's important to realise that if you're involved in feminism, or LGBT rights, or racial issues, or anything like that, you've been told that your issues are a distraction from the important things so many times that no, no matter how well-meant it is, it's probably not going to go down well. Because there are always important things. If we wait until we're not being distracting? We never get to the front of the queue.
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I have no argument, I just want world peace. I hope the bill passes.
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if you’re involved in feminism, or LGBT rights, or racial issues, or anything like that, you’ve been told that your issues are a distraction from the important things
Yeah, that's it for me - "Someone else's rights" are my rights, otherwise we're in a society ranked by privileges, if you get what I mean.
I have no argument, I just want world peace. I hope the bill passes.
It will. I'm glad there's someone in the Labour party with actual principles and ideals and who isn't waiting for a response from their media advisor and focus groups. Maybe there's hope for them yet... but it's a pity it's a conscience and not a party policy vote.
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Ummm.... Wow.... Talk about unexpected bed-fellows.
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Oh Fuck it hey Krack I'm not Richard Dawkins but I guess I'll have to do.
“So an infinite being, who can not be less than infinite is relatable generally via providence and immediately at a human scale by the incarnation…alright,
Thus Jesus, Oh right. Do you need a translator. No I guess three would be company in this case.
Einstein talked about the immanence of divinity in the orderliness, indeed the beauty of the universe in that order,
You would be referring to the Einstein who came out with the "god doesnt play dice" quote that era I'm guessing. Something he later admitted was wrong. And he wasnt referring to GOD just his sense of the divine. He didnt really understand the quantum world who does! And there aint no unseen order it's chaos out there. Dont be fooled by pretty picture of galaxies and stars. Tho scientists working on the Higgs Boson say its properties are godlike. Oh shit perhaps we are all zombies controlled from the subatomic world.
Blake wrote about heaven in a wild flower…
And in certain states of mind I can talk to flowers and they talk back, not words you understand(flowers dont have vocal chords) just sensing feelings. Who needs heaven or Blake.
discuss matters civilly without retreating into tribalism.
You dont understand tribalism.
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We know that prostitution reform and civil unions brought us the retribution of the Christchurch earthquake... and now Tongariro erupts. We need to stop this blasphemy right now
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Lilith __, in reply to
and now Tongariro erupts
This could be a sign for us to hurry up and pass it, or else....
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Emma Hart, in reply to
We know that prostitution reform and civil unions brought us the retribution of the Christchurch earthquake... and now Tongariro erupts. We need to stop this blasphemy right now
Once, again, God demonstrating his need of a Map to the Gayz.
This might help. Try to guess which major city in NZ has the highest level of support for marriage equality. Wrong.
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Hamilton?!
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Moz, in reply to
I'm with god on this one, smiting Hamilton from the face of the earth is the right thing to do. Apologies to stargazer, but that's just the way it is.
I was amused when my parents swung from "meh" to unconditional support after my sister got married. I suspect because someone wanted to attend the wedding.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
I was amused when my parents swung from “meh” to unconditional support after my sister got married. I suspect because someone wanted to attend the wedding.
I’m neither amused nor surprised. I’m not sure I should be inferring a causal relationship between the two but is it any surprise that that when you dig down into attitudes around marriage equality those who claim they don’t know any awful hoe-mow-sackuals (well, apart from the one’s cowering behind their closet doors in terror) are the strongest opponents? It’s easy to defend bigotry when it’s little more than an abstraction; when that abstraction has a face, and it’s one you genuinely care for? Shit gets real, to coin a phrase. :)
Which is why I keep saying civil F2F lobbying of the undecideds matters, and it can work.
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Danielle, in reply to
It’s easy to defend bigotry when it’s little more than an abstraction; when that abstraction has a face, and it’s one you genuinely care for? Shit gets real, to coin a phrase.
I discovered this week that this approach, which I still agree with, doesn't work all the time. My husband had a slight altercation on Facebook with his uncle over the whole Chick-Fil-A thingy; the uncle and nuclear family had actually taken part in the "support bigoted chicken day" or whatever it was called, *even though* my husband's cousin/the uncle's nephew is gay, sees everyone regularly at family events, and was actually sitting right there (virtually) 'liking' my husband's pro-marriage-equality comments in the thread. That sort of cognitive dissonance is so bizarre.
Also, Hamilton? You're blowing my mind!
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DexterX, in reply to
Tho scientists working on the Higgs Boson say its properties are godlike.
Two geezers, one Lederman (Nobel award winning physicist) and the other Tresci (a science writer) co authored a book called - The God Particle: If the Universe Is the Answer, What Is the Question? – which provides an overview of the history of particle physics – particle physics for almost dummies.
Physicists generally resent the “God Particle” tag as sub atomic particle theory has nothing to do with “God” – however the label initially helped promote the work and may well help with spending a shit load of cash funding related research.
So if anyones has in the back of their mind that the species is on the brink of some event horizon thang and God will appear saying this is how its done then they are pretty wrong.
Most metaphors don’t bear close examination and most branding is largely nonsense.
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The cynic in me thinks that Keys support for marriage equality is a thing by which he seeks to define himself - to be remembered in history as being the reasonable man – that he will perhaps shepherd his flock to follow suit (in the conscience vote).
The parallel is perhaps Labour and Lange - Privatisation and Nuclear Free NZ. The Nats and Key - Assets Sales and marriage equality.
Whatever way the bill progresses it needs to be passed and become a (global) beacon for equality/tolerance/acceptance/love.
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