"The Terrorism Files"

850 Responses

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  • Russell Brown,

    who knows. its even conceivable that malcontent weirdos might run around in the woods with guns, and spouting post-structuralist and revolutionary gibberish. then where would we be.

    Actually, that would make a bloody great TV comedy sketch.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • commie mutant traitor,

    I hate the idea of voting for them, but I’m terrified that if we don’t the Nats are back

    Then vote Green; it will keep the Nats out just as well, and the more votes they get, the more they'll be able to pull Labour slightly closer to the right (ie left) direction. If we had an actual democracy, I'd recommend voting Alliance as another good option.

    Since Nov 2007 • 22 posts Report Reply

  • Jimmy Southgate,

    Making Napalm is all well and good

    Yikes, that sounds more relaxed about it than I meant to, god I love Friday.

    Wellingtown • Since Nov 2006 • 103 posts Report Reply

  • Finn Higgins,

    Does that run on Linux?

    Keep your white liberal guilt away from me!

    Wellington • Since Apr 2007 • 209 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I think it was Donna-Marie Lever who said that Parekura Horomia stepped up after Nanaia retreated "almost in tears". I'm no expert, but I do think that calling Bob Mahuta's daughter a "traitor" won't go down well with many Tainui.

    Bugger Tainui. It should be profoundly offensive to anyone with a shred of decency, and profoundly counter-productive to anyone whose political analysis is marginally deeper than an am-dram production of Les Miz. And anyone who really wants to get into me for ethnocentrism' might want to think very, very carefully. Take my pulse, because that's all the 'authenticity' I can be arsed proving to anyone.

    And believe you me, people, if Nanaia treated any manuhiri (regardless of their geneology) with that kind of disrespect on any marae, it wouldn't matter whose bloody daughter she was. Rhetoric can run hot on heavy on the marae, but there are some lines you just don't cross unless you're ready for some serious consequences.

    And what the hell happened to the concept of do unto others and you would have others do unto uou?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    And what the hell happened to the concept of do unto others and you would have others do unto uou?

    Feh... I belive the moral axiom is "DO UNTO OTHERS, AS YOU WOULD HAVE OTHERS DO UNTO YOU?" Fraking alcohol-free cough mixture...

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    And now I've done my breathing exercises...

    Sorry, no personal attack here: but that seems to some bloodcurdlingly arrogant.

    "Yes, white New Zealand, we realise that you think we're basically ungrateful savages because we cling absurdly to our barbaric culture, but we're here to assure you that we too can wear suits on Sunday and debate policy in a reasonable, restrained manner, just as you do in your parliament house. Afterwards, maybe we can take tea together and then Sara can explain poststructuralism to us so we may enter your fine university system and drop French names and feel ever so clever. Thank you for listening, and have a nice day."

    Um, you were taking the piss Creon? Because if any of the above was meant to be taken seriously, it's mind-bendingly condescending to both Maori and Pakeha. Which takes some kind of genius, but is still a dubious achievement all the same.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Hawkes,

    John Key's August trip to Tuhoe country was unaccompanied by police.

    One News was told the Diplomatic Protection Squad knew about the alleged "plot", but provided written advice that it was safe to travel to the area.

    [ http://tinyurl.com/29rw2h ]

    Since Nov 2007 • 3 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    y'know, I really can't see how "Maori explain their view of the Treaty to Maori, and Pakeha explain their view to Pakeha" is going to help solve anything.

    Well I'm not involved with Network Waitangi, though I certainly appreciated their work when I did some of their workshops. They could explain their work better than I could.

    But I don't believe they've created a line and said 'Pakeha on this side', 'Maori on that side'. They've just created an alternative space for treaty education to which everyone is welcome.

    The philosophy is, "it's not the job of Maori to educate every Pakeha about this, it's the role of all New Zealanders to take a role in treaty education".

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    The philosophy is, "it's not the job of Maori to educate every Pakeha about this, it's the role of all New Zealanders to take a role in treaty education".

    Well, my philosophy is that it's the 'job' of an informed and engaged citizen to know something about the history, literature and culture of their own country. And even think about it a little bit...

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Kent Parker,

    Back to the topic of the thread: I think that publishing this material is probably some kind of contempt of court. Certainly it upsets the fair trial process.

    In addition if these people really are terrorists, then Phillip Kitchen's life is on the line, because he would likely be a target now. If Phillip really believed these allegations described little more than the rantings of teenage disaffected youth on P, then he wouldn't have put his head in the lion's mouth. But then who knows, he might have a suicidal streak.

    Certainly I don't think it was wise and would have preferred to see the evidence after it had been through the judicial process rather than before.

    Hawkes Bay • Since Nov 2006 • 36 posts Report Reply

  • WH,

    i believe in a society in which people who let their strong feelings cloud their judgment are celebrated, and rewarded with positions of influence.

    i believe in a society where generations-old grievances are used to justify anachronistic political structures and violent forms of protest.

    i believe in a society where aspirations to the equality of peoples is put aside in favour of perpetuating historical political/racial distinctions.

    i believe in exaggeraton and soaring, meaningless rhetoric.

    hear my dream, people, for lo, it is friday, and i am grumpy.

    Since Nov 2006 • 797 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Labour being retrogressive, (and fascist nanny control freaks) what – seriously – is the alternative?

    The Greens have made threshold in every election since MMP. They are currently polling around 6% and given the kick minor parties get at election time, I see no reason why they won't do it again.

    Which means that switching your vote from Labour to Green won't do anything to help the Nats get back in - it'll just boost the chances of a Lab/Green/Maori Party government that would be a lot more left than the one we have now.

    (Incidentally, if there was a right-wing majority of the votes, but due to ACT & NZF missing threshold, a LGMP government, I bet we'd get a lot of insurrectionist chat in golf clubs and the like).

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • InternationalObserver,

    hear my dream, people, for lo, it is friday, and i am grumpy.

    Cast yourself free from the shackles of the Protestant Work Ethic (a.k.a the 9-5 work week) WH and you'll discover you don't have to wait until Friday to be grumpy ...

    Freelancers can be grumpy any time they jolly well please ...

    Me personally? I'm probably more Dopey than Grumpy.

    Since Jun 2007 • 909 posts Report Reply

  • kmont,

    Hi

    Finn, thanks for the offer of a leisurely off line conversation (if that's what we are calling it these days) it was appreciated. But I have no energy for it. Just keeping up with this monster of a thread kind of precludes involvement in other hobbies these days! Jeeze. With so many contrasting perspectives it is hard to know if there is any meaningful dialogue going on (idealistic I know, I know) around here, I could just go on a logical pick pick pick mission on parts of peoples arguments but I dont have the strengh and I am bound to get border line flamey. At least I haven't called anyone a troll or willfully ignorant today ; )

    So I guess I am just going to do the tautoko thing today.

    What does this mean?

    Here's a new catchy acronym for PAS: GOYFHH. (Any ideas?)

    And it would be really nice if people of a more "mainstream" mentality at least recognised for a moment the pains others go through when they must communicate in a language/discourse that they don't particularly trust or are fundamentally at odds with.

    I think that is a relevant point.

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 485 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I bet we'd get a lot of insurrectionist chat in golf clubs and the like.

    Oh fuck off, Rich. I'd really like to know what kind of childhood trauma makes some sections of the left so convinced that golf clubs are the central nervous system of the VRWC. Then again, I may live to regret asking. Why don't you opine that there will be race war and blood in the streets if John Key ever becomes Prime Minister, because I'd like to complete my Bullshit Bingo card before the end of the week.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    John Key's August trip to Tuhoe country was unaccompanied by police.

    One News was told the Diplomatic Protection Squad knew about the alleged "plot", but provided written advice that it was safe to travel to the area.

    Does anyone else find this extraordinary?

    <kiwiblog>Perhaps someone in the bureaucracy wants John Key dead?</kiwiblog>

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Take another breath Craig. You were doing well until then.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    It was only when the populace started caring more about peace than about "just wars" that progress could again be made towards a country everybody could live in

    I don't intend to try and justify the excesses committed by all three groups in the Troubles, including the one I was forced to help fund (the British security forces).

    However, in 1967 there was, as Finn rightly alludes, widespread political and social discrimination implemented by a majoritarian state.
    Now, NI has power sharing, robust anti-discrimination laws and an accountable police force. I personally doubt that would have happened without the Nationalist community having kicked back.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Kent Parker,

    <blockquote>Does anyone else find this extraordinary?</blockquote>

    Just more confirmation that no one really takes this threat of terrorism seriously.

    While some individual Maori might be disaffected and resentful, I don't think there is the motivation for a NZ branch of Al Qaeda.

    Hawkes Bay • Since Nov 2006 • 36 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    My new teeshirt,

    What Would Kyle Say?

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • commie mutant traitor,

    Does anyone else find this extraordinary?

    I wish I did. It's highly amusing, certainly, and should absolutely be front page news, but it doesn't surprise me.

    Since Nov 2007 • 22 posts Report Reply

  • Finn Higgins,

    Rich: You reckon? In the 1960s and early 1970s there was, in Northern Ireland, a functioning movement for peaceful change similar to that which was effective in bringing an end to officially-sactioned discrimination in the US and which helped end British occupation of India, a far more valuable bit of the empire to the British than Northern Ireland. It was only after Bloody Sunday that armed struggle became the preferred vehicle for change in the catholic/republican community. Bloody Sunday was a totally dispicable act by the British armed forces, but the reaction of turning to the IRA with open arms was, in my view, a terrible and costly mistake. Non-violent resistance worked just fine for Martin Luther King and Ghandi, I'd rather have seen that given a better shot rather than the decades of pointless tit-for-tat violence which occurred through the 1970s, 80s and parts of the early 90s.

    It's also worth mentioning that for most of the troubles the IRA were heavily if not primarily funded by only-very-slightly-Irish Americans who for some reason had this idealised picture in their head of a "just war" fought by "our boys" against the evil colonialists. They spent plenty of time living remotely from the violence they were helping to fund, all the while kicking around minimisations and justifications remarkably similar to the ones you might find reading back through this thread. Their money went into buying weapons that killed substantial numbers of Irish people, enabled highly dubious paramilitary organisations to take up a role in running (and taxing) Northern Irish organised crime and held up the process of reaching peaceful settlement for decades.

    Not only that, the climate of distrust and fear that the 70s IRA campaigns generated on the British mainland resulted in the beginning of some of the stupid anti-terror laws we're seeing around the Western world today and helped stir up increased levels of anti-Irish racism and official mistreatment in Britain.

    I really, really can't see any justification for the violence that happened. It resulted in a whole load of shitty results for Northern Irish people and was heavily funded, supported and justified by people who were safely remote from any negative side-effects of their actions.

    Wellington • Since Apr 2007 • 209 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    What Would Kyle Say?

    World famous in NZ. Feel the love.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Does anyone else find this extraordinary?

    Not really. The DPS doesn't comment on security matters, full stop, so we don't actually know a damn thing about the 'written advice' or how it was arrived at, do we?

    Take another breath Craig. You were doing well until then.

    Probably very good advice, but in the context of this thread don't you think it was just a wee bit gratuitous and flat out weird?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

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