Speaker: Talking past each other: Ideological silos and research
345 Responses
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Danielle, in reply to
Yeah, once we get to the stage where you're gaslighting me for disagreeing with you, there aren't too many other places to go.
I've been a member of this community for nearly ten years. If you really think so little of me that you assume I'm just having goes at people thanks to my irrational/emotional nature, I don't feel particularly comfortable here.
Also: nice try, linger. ;)
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Yeah, once we get to the stage where you’re gaslighting me for disagreeing with you, there aren’t too many other places to go.
I wasn't. I did worry that you'd have a go at me for the comment and tried to make light of it. I'm sorry. I'm going to watch TV with my family.
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Sacha, sorry, I've deleted your comment. I don't want to read what someone is saying about me on Twitter, because it's probably hurtful. This is kind of depressing and I'm over it.
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David Hood, in reply to
Well, I was thinking in terms of it having been a standing policy of England Labour as part of a package of policies considered more progressive than the Tories. Regarding Finland, and my reading of Finnish politics is by no means expert, it was part of the basket of policies of the leftist green coalition of the time which one would describe as leftish by scandanavian standards. In other parts of Scandanavia sugar taxes seem to have been established as part of the general post war social democrat Scandinavian social safety net of social support.
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Does anyone mind if I close the thread?
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Sacha, in reply to
Fair enough. I'm disgusted.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Oh well, seeing as you're discussin' ....
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David Hood, in reply to
I'd be happy not to have the option of adding to things to this thread- I was just composing posts while helping out on other sites, so I was lagging in the conversation, and I don't think I can add much light to it.
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We've certainly acted out the premise. Well done, all.
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There is a pattern developing of women saying things here and men feeling oppressed and wanting to close threads that... but hey it's not my forum you all do what you like. Food for thought though maybe.
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It's a very challenging thread. And a scary one for some people to participate in, even though they have important things to say.
I think it would be silencing to close it down permanently. Taking the evening off seems like a reasonable option, but closing it down altogether does seem, well, as though it's not permissible to have a conversation about fatness and fat people.
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Sacha, in reply to
Not feeling 'oppressed' here, Gio. Just disgusted by passive-aggressive discussion styles.
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Sacha, in reply to
a conversation about fatness and fat people
It interests me how a conversation about reducing the availability of sugar turned into that.
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Deborah, in reply to
Not feeling oppressed here. Just disgusted by passive-aggressive discussion styles.
Sacha, this would in fact be an exemplar of passive aggression, and this type of response is exactly why many women I am in contact with don't participate here.
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Deborah, in reply to
It interests me how a conversation about reducing the availability of sugar turned into that.
It was because we can't talk about obesity as some kind of abstract, out there kind of thing. Obesity is located here, in our bodies and in our very existence. When we talk about combatting obesity, we talk about combatting actual real people. And those actual real people feel very targeted and demonised and threatened.
And as Danielle commented above, that's without even considering the particular resonances here for women, and for working class people.
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
Not feeling ‘oppressed’ here, Gio. Just disgusted by passive-aggressive discussion styles.
You don't want me to tell you what I thought of your throwaway post about obesity being contagious, in all honesty.
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Sacha, in reply to
I get that about obesity, yes, but the health impacts of sugar are so much broader as I've tried to contribute. 'Sugar tax' does not mean 'obesity tax'.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
There is a pattern developing of women saying things here and men feeling oppressed and wanting to close threads that… but hey it’s not my forum you all do what you like. Food for thought though maybe.
I presume "men" refers to me – in which case you should probably have said so. I'm not feeling "oppressed", but it does start to feel a bit pointless when it gets like this.
I'm somewhat aware that I'm being slagged on Twitter, again, but I'm trying not to look. I've tried hard with this thread and I've especially endeavoured to operate in good faith. The only time I've closed a thread in recent memory was when a discussion had gone completely toxic and abusive. It took a toll on me and I'd rather not go there again.
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Sacha, in reply to
Not your styles. Twitter styles actually.
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
I presume “men” refers to me – in which case you should probably have said so.
Not just you, no. Clearly Sacha too. The most notable of these threads was Graeme's on 'roast busters' and free speech.
I won't comment on the 'slagging', other than to say if people feel they can't speak their mind here they will do so elsewhere.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I think it would be silencing to close it down permanently. Taking the evening off seems like a reasonable option, but closing it down altogether does seem, well, as though it’s not permissible to have a conversation about fatness and fat people.
All good. I would be grateful if it got back to being a discussion.
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Sacha, in reply to
And those actual real people feel very targeted and demonised and threatened.
I'm fat. Yes I'm a man but I do not feel threatened, to be clear. Nor do I believe my feelings should prevent conversations about ideas and actions, in any case. The world is not a therapy session.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
The most notable of these threads was Graeme’s on ‘roast busters’ and free speech.
That was three years ago, after 394 comments. I didn't agree with Graeme's perspective, but it's hardly a "pattern developing". Threads do occasionally need to end..
And I would debate your "women versus men" framing in this case. A scan of the thread would indicate a range of views on either "side". But I can't tell anyone how to see things. I would like a rest though.
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Sacha, in reply to
Please take a look at Danielle's Twitter thread before you load that one on me.
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
Please take a look at Danielle's Twitter thread before you load that one on me.
Kind of begs the question of why you are looking at it, given you don't follow Danielle. But hey.
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