Back to the topic: quite cool to see these community-led developments towards a healthier Aotearoa.

Oh, I get it.
Sometimes it feels like people are ignoring what I say and going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU !!!" or cutting…

Given the Segway's track record – unaffordably overpriced, heavily restricted use, the guy who bought the company killed using his own product – that clean water might be a while coming.

nothing sacred about em. may not notice the times when mine get edited. all part of the package, Steve.

Yeah, but you have to go with my judgement because it’s my house. And if things are wrong it always comes back to me.

I didn’t want to just delete the comment because it was saying something, but that one small part was going to…

welcome to the not-jungle

Coca Cola would already have had a good Idea and the rest is jam..

Your comments on tobacco as a way of gouging taxation, from a hopelessly addicted population, is a pure example of the way…

Good on you Sacha, that was an inspiring post. *hugs*

Also workplaces and educational institutions. Chances are, if there's a Coke machine on your campus, they'll have signed an exclusive deal to exclude any other manufacturer's product.

Certainly were. Taking action to prevent that. It has been a reflective few weeks/days.

Me either, I’ve realised. Aspie stuff again.

However trying to control the social environment is the wrong response for my own wellbeing. I apologise for upsetting people by doing that.

Seeing other people do it…

Some interesting things to consider there Steve. Most notably is that the huge decrease hasn’t occurred in isolation but as part of a vast raft of measures.

With…

“paternalistic” regulations or “policies to protect people from themselves” should…

Have done, for a long time, still do. I have made a whole heap of "lifestyle changes" for the greater good. I have started eating (kangaroo)meat…

I check many things, but there are some things that taste so vile I doubt it's a gut thing, it's a super-taster thing. I'm generally concerned about getting enough variety in my diet, because I know I…

And that's very much the core of a number of folks objection to a tax.

The answer is yes the consumer pays but it has also had a huge impact on the producers. Tobacco companies have shrunk hugely over the last two…

Jeez….
How openly tone-deafist of you…
Unfair to the tone impaired...
:-(

I’m sorry Danielle, I just assumed from your Avatar…

A large mug mug of Twining's Lemon Zest (which has disappeared from every known supermarket but Gilmour's, where it's permanently on special), then breakfast, then one coffee. All sitting at my computer.

Speaking of which, I'll try not to spend too much time at my computer today.…

As a young child I spent many a happy hour hooked up to a glucose drip, being hauled back from the brink.

Later, I learned to read the signs of impending trouble..

Shakiness, anxiety, nervousness
Palpitations, tachycardia…

http://discovermagazine.com/2010/mar/07-dr-drank-broth-gave-ulcer-solved-medical-mystery

I don't disagree that you should be free to experiment with yourself. I just wish they'd do the…

Me neither. There are some pretty strong but very specific examples of foods (not drugs) affecting mental state. But beyond that there…

Also mixed into meatballs. Not so much to sneak veges in but because they add flavour and moisture.

They also give you new ideas. Sometime the hardest part of sorting out dinner is coming up with an idea.

and there is also the use of other larger organisms/parasites for purging and intervention – and why not, leeches and maggots have made a big comeback as well…

Same. I made a conscious effort to improve my breakfast diet a couple of years ago, and it's muesli,…

Yes!

Thanks Bart, that certainly rang a bell…

And I'm going to risk it going to shit...a bit..

About 23 years ago a friend, her hubby and nine month old daughter picked up a lovely dose of Cryptosporidium

Parents were on the mend, but not quite well enough to care for…

Hmmm yeah kinda. Informed usually means some good understand of all the risks and expected outcomes. I somehow doubt everyone who experiments on themselves is as informed as an ethics committee would normally require if they were subjects in a scientific study.

But yeah it's their body to…

heh the plant side of that idea is much closer to my specialty but even then it isn't an area where I'd be comfortable writing a grant today but I would have the background to read the literature and understand…

So when you posted here a couple of years back about "Make cows burp less by making them more efficient (better…

See my message for a link on t'other social network.

https://www.ted.com/talks/rob_knight_how_our_microbes_make_us_who_we_are/transcript?language=en

Though I think he would agree that it is a really complicated micro-ecology of interactions in there, so you can't really just swap-out microfauna on the grounds of "this one seems good in isolation" at…

It would good to know…

I'd like to but I'm a little jumpy about bad bugs versus good bugs for…

I also heard recently, from…

That's how my partner got toxoplasmosis :-)

I hope youse fellas are all eating unsweetened yoghurt. Your average pottle of fresh n fruity has a lot of sugar in it, and…

This is one reason why I'm comfortable suggesting these things. None of the suggestions is inconsistent with generally "good eating" and many are damn tasty.

Moz via an exclusion diet a couple of comments, apparently as…

Being a home brewer, I get plenty of…

I got interested pretty much the opposite way... via an exclusion diet to reduce the volume and intensity of my farting. The low FODMAP diet seems to be a close summary of…

Yeah – make changes gradually :).

Yeah my impression is these scientists are working quite hard to stay in the science arena which is why any advice they are willing to give is strictly prefaced with "this is what I…

The comments, and these are from interviews on the science podcasts I listen to, say diversity seems to be beneficial. So you get diversity from eating lots of different foods. But in particular anything…

Interesting Bart. What sorts of dietary changes are these? Probiotic yoghurt would be an obvious one I guess.…

Hell, that it is interesting.

I was about to close the thread because it had degenerated into end-stage talking about talking ... but if you want to talk about that, I can keep it running :-)

I've been following the microbiome story for a while now, and tweeting most of the links to it that I read.

It is pretty clear that the science is still in it's infancy and…

Ah, Steve. Keeping it classy there as usual, I see.

If you'd like me to say what I say on Twitter about this place here, I'll certainly do it. It's mainly silly gifs…

Thanks Sofie. I'd settle for people simply being able to disagree without it going to character. That reliably becomes the opposite of discussion.

Woot! An on-topic comment!

Thanks Hilary :-)

Also if anyone wants to talk about ideological silos talking past each other, I think it'd still be a worthwhile discussion. I'd initially understood the food/health policy thing to just be an example of a…

Yes, I'm sorry Carol. I have had this feedback. Obviously, it would be silly to even try and have a "don't talk about PA outside PA rule", but the element of bad faith in talking smack about individuals grieves me.

I did invite suggestions the last time…

A number of women, repeatedly in this thread and elsewhere, have said they no longer…

Its a shame but there always has been and always will be people that will talk behind your back, I think it comes from an insecurity thing, if they are too…

That would be good.

I'm certainly not interested in that either, for the record, WHICH IS WHY I DON'T LINK MY SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS HERE.

And we regularly seem to get a couple of pages of "but you said on Yabber", "she started it with what she said on Fugwob" nonsense that possibly makes sense to the three people having…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcB0LtmGMc4&feature=youtu.be

Yes, gotta say, linger gets it. :)

Me too. One thing I have noticed is that, because many interact with other forms of communication, it seems like ye ol' (and I'm not being racist!) Chinese whispers by the time contributions get back…

we have met the enemy though
and it is us, largely...

:- )

(see above)

I have come here for decades because most folks here are also intent on discussing in good…

So, a conversation goes on here and you casually drop by on somebody who is very pointedly not one of the 4,000 you follow on Twitter? Okay. Whatever, really.

goodbye

Really? We have different Twitter usage patterns. You follow about 700 people, me about 4000. I visit other people's timelines when a conversation prompts it. Nothing remotely 'creepy' about that, sir.

I presume “men” refers to me

I was the only other person who discussed closing the thread, so I might be one third of the at least 2+ males that must exist to be men. I try generally assuming the best and posting to…

I’m not interested in interacting with you at all in future, Sacha, as I find you unnecessarily cruel.

PS My…

Seems relevant to you, maybe. It seems creepy to me. And Russell does follow Danielle, so it's not as if she's speaking behind his back or anything. Get a hold of yourself.

Kind of begs the question of why you are looking at it, given you don't follow Danielle. But hey.

That was three years ago, after 394 comments. I didn't agree with Graeme's perspective, but it's hardly a "pattern developing". Threads do occasionally need to end..

And I would debate your "women versus men" framing in…

I'm fat. Yes I'm a man but I do not feel threatened, to be clear. Nor do I believe my feelings should prevent conversations about ideas and actions, in any case. The world is not a therapy session.

All good. I would be grateful if it…

Not just you, no. Clearly Sacha too. The most notable of these threads was Graeme's on 'roast busters' and free speech.

I won't comment on the 'slagging', other than to say if people feel…

I presume "men" refers to me – in which case you should probably…

You don't want me to tell you what I thought of your throwaway post about obesity being contagious, in all honesty.

It was because we can't talk about obesity as some kind of abstract, out there kind of thing. Obesity is located here, in our bodies and in our very existence. When we talk about combatting…

Sacha, this would in fact be an exemplar of passive aggression, and this type of response is exactly why many women I am in contact with don't participate here.

It interests me how a conversation about reducing the availability of sugar turned into that.

I think it would be silencing to close it down permanently. Taking the evening off seems like a reasonable option, but closing it down altogether does seem,…

I wasn't. I did worry that you'd have a go at me for the comment and tried to make light of it. I'm sorry. I'm going to…

I've been a member of this community for nearly ten years. If you really think so little of me that you assume I'm just having goes at…

That’s not what I said and I honestly don't know what to say now.

That it not what I was trying to do, because some conservative politicians like it (and some dislike it) and it is not…

... And also, unreconstructed idiots like that NZInitiative audience member. From here, hard to tell which is in the majority. Going off now to re-read the "missing stair" thread...

I’m sure hidden…

Don't get me wrong, it's good to get the full "bitch be crazy" treatment sometimes. Just so I can be reminded of where I stand.

Hang on, in England it has been advocated by Labour for years, the Tories were very much pushed into.

Norway also has a sugar tax. And among Finland's somewhat complicated coalition arrangements, as far as I can see can the sugar tax has been removed (multiple…

No, I'm not. I've acknowledged what you've said. But I honestly was worried you'd have a go at…

PS My health professional friend notes that there is an association between Alzheimer's and depression: "an odds ratio of 2.0 for depression occurring more than 10 years before the onset of dementia symptoms".

I really resent this implication that you think I'm so unreasonable that I'm incapable of reading comprehension. Is there anything in my posts in this thread to…

I wasn’t aware New Zealand was the only country that counted. The sugar tax was famously championed by Bloomberg, a Republican. Adopted in Mexico by a conservative president, in France under Sarkozy, in England under…

Oh yeah, that's quite a common refrain. I'm waiting for my inevitable hospital surcharge. "Reasonable" people would probably agree that the consumer needs to pay, right?

I was concerned that you'd respond by accusing me of saying "Fat people are stupid," so I'm happy (well, relieved) with…

Really? It’s been dismissed by John Key, opposed by Katherine Rich and notoriously and dirtily campaigned against by Carrick Graham and friends.

Which conservative politicians in New Zealand can you name as supportive of a sugar tax?

On the other hand:

Green…

A health professional who similarly feels unsafe posting here read the original research papers you're talking about in this post and notes that poor cognition is linked to depression and poor emotional wellbeing, which is intrinsically connected to "obesity", which…

Thanks for fact-checking. Spotted that in a break. Amazing what's coming out about our microbiome now.

Not at the cost of pretending that there are no competing social interests at play. The sugar tax is popular among conservative politicians because it enables them to be seen…

__WTF. Seriously what fate hate? Nobody was deriding people for being obese. For some reason (and I know offense is always in the eye of the beholder) someone felt offended by others saying obesity is a…

Thanks Rebecca. We'll have you…

Nice. I'm (trying) to write something that covers a similar approach to drug policy, per Tuari Potiki's UN speech.

Papa Nahi, who was on our show this week talking about drug policy, is also quoted in this story on an initiative by a…

So this may be a bit new to me, but I didn't…

Speaking of ideology, the liberal fiction that we're all good people and if only we were all reasonable we'd realise we all want the same things is one you disturb at…

Yeah Gio, stop ruining our consensus with your pesky disagreement! What do you think this is, a discussion forum?

It should be noted that it's not only Jackie who's noping on out of here. There…

I'm going to venture "not on the basis of that article"

It is a bit difficult to track back- Though credited to Sarah Knapton at The Telegraph (you might know her from articles such as "Long term vegetarian diet changes human DNA raising risk of cancer and heart disease"…

The hapū whānau at the meeting told Ricky that they wanted to find out what the issues were with obesity, why it was a problem, and understand its relationship to wellness.

Cognitive Impairment: A Hidden Consequence of the Childhood Obesity Epidemic

The impact of obesity and metabolic disorders on cognition seems to be well established, but the particular impact on children…

I think it's interesting that when we talk about restricting the ability of alcohol and tobacco dealers to push their wares there's some discomfort but broad acceptance that we do need both regulations and taxes. Even…

For my sins, I do seem to have started this by using the phrase…

Oh dear god do you think you could be any more patronising?

Good grief. Pot and kettle in the same post.

It comes as no surprise that a moderately worthwhile thread dies at your hands again.

I'm simply referring to the reality of the current political debates. In Britain, the tax was passed along with benefit cuts. No efforts were made to…

Except nobody here has suggested that.

Instead what was suggested is that we shouldn't do the sugar tax thing because we weren't talking about the other parts of the problem.

In short exactly the opposite of what you claim.

Everyone…

Here's some of that controversy: an article in Nature about the problems with calling obesity a disease.

Perspective: Obesity is not a disease
Obesity warrants medical as well as cultural legitimacy and respect, but needs…

If someone has enough money to buy food and be fat, they can just as well eat less of that food, have more money and…

I'm not buying this. If "problem" is the same as a disease but without a definition, it's just a sloppy way of saying disease. And I insist we should guard against sloppy use of over-charged language.

The issues is that current talk is not about also doing that but only doing that. Meanwhile, if people suggest…

I guess that "health problem" is descriptive where "disease" has a definition. The AMA has definitions of condition, disease and disorder, noting that "Condition is perhaps the least specific, often denoting states of health considered normal or healthy but nevertheless…

That would certainly be good.

But although…

What's the difference between a health problem and a disease?

I think professional acceptance of obesity as a health problem is very widespread. The more edgy argument is whether it should be called a disease. The American Medical Association officially deemed it a disease in 2013,…

Happy to agree with you on this one. There's an interesting recent book on…

In most arguments I've seen with libertarians it seems to reduce to "you're not the boss of me", a selfish and childish position. Some folk do not seem to have been raised properly to negotiate interests with others, and even to recognise that society exists…

Coke dens, etc. :)

I conducted an unscientific survey last night. Asked Female Offspring in early twenties..."Do you feel guilty…

(Ironic that "obesity = name-calling" is a reductionist position.)