Speaker by Various Artists

Read Post

Speaker: Are there opportunities within the Government’s childhood obesity plan?

229 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 6 7 8 9 10 Newer→ Last

  • Danielle, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    Let me then appeal to you on behalf of your children.

    She doesn't have any children, so I don't think that's going to work. :D

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    Okay. Let me then appeal to you on behalf of your children.

    Please, no more assumptions about who you are talking with. Russell, you may want to ponder this one.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    There’s a good documentary, (I think it’s called) Supersize Me. Watch it.

    It's a doco about what happens if you eat so much McDonalds every day, for every meal, that you feel sick, but you force it down anyway, because you want to deliberately damage your health. I'm pretty sure that McDonalds never claimed that doing that would be a good idea. It would also happen if you ate only sardines for every meal and forced it down until you were on the verge of actually vomiting, the way that guy did. I mean we're talking about an upsized McDonalds combo worth of sardines 3 times a day. That's going to be something like 10 cans per sitting. I think you'd probably last longer on the McDonalds.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    (was actually asking about outlet, at that price)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    Let me then appeal to you on behalf of your children.

    No, I won't let you. Where the fuck do you get off?

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Lilith __,

    I'm not sure where her stop is, but I sure wish we'd get there soon.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    how do your friends react when you dole out advice like this?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Lilith __,

    Where the fuck do you get off?

    that as well

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    McSardine

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    Sorry, I actually thought you put the proposition seriously - and were looking for a roll play type response on how I would approach the question if put to me by someone who wanted to change their diet for the better.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    someone who wanted to change their diet for the better

    that might be your problem.

    stop.
    looking.
    at.
    the.
    individual.
    person.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    This is a bit silly. Katharine's going to take a rest now.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    thank you

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • JacksonP, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    Okay. Let me then appeal to you on behalf of your children. What’s important is getting them to like sardines from an early age, and this relies on you eating them too.

    Are you just taking the piss now? Let the sardines go! Also, you have offended a large portion of people on here by your presumptions. You could perhaps reflect on that and stop.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2011 • 2450 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    I think we cod all stand to clam down a bit, seeing as things are getting a bit crabby round here. Russell's had his say, and eel need to bring out the Salmon of Correction if this goes on too long. Musselling in won't solve anything.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to B Jones,

    Mmmm, seafood.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • JacksonP,

    Sardines for everything!

    Auckland • Since Mar 2011 • 2450 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to JacksonP,

    Sardines for everything!

    Hey I'm no dietician but I reckon there's enough protein in that bassline to sustain an entire family for a week on just one listen.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    I actually tried sardines on wholegrain toast last night, for a laugh, just to see if it measured up to fish and chips. I had forgotten how tasteless sardines are, and how stinky. I think I'd have to mix them up with something like tomato or chopped onions to actually enjoy them. Or probably I'd pay the extra 20 cents and have fish I like more, salmon and/or tuna, pre-mixed. On the flipside I don't personally like fish and chips that much. The enjoyment is more about a cultural touchstone than because this is food I think is boss. It's basically too rich, and at the same time too unsatisfying, so I tend to eat too much of it, feel sick, and wonder why I did it.

    Afterwards, I had misgivings about teasing Katherine, and feel like apologizing. Everyone was being obtuse all round and it derailed a thread on a real issue. Mind you, I don't think the thread had much legs until it got all het up anyway, which goes to the sorry state of a lot of internet discussion.

    Katherine's had her first team beating courtesy of PAS. I feel a bit dirty. I don't want to relitigate any of the fight.

    Can we reboot back 24 hours? Megan had a bunch of suggestions that were alternatives to using the tax man to attempt population wide dietary regulation. I thought: Yes, they're alternatives, and and no, they probably won't have any really effect either. Not on obesity, that is, although all of them would lead to improved quality of life for a lot of people.

    To me, getting people to actually eat better is a mystery. Being in control of at least 2 other human being's food intake (my children), it's clear that there is quite a wide variability in what can be acheived by any measures. They are raised in the same house with the same parents with the same rules and the same food. But they have completely different eating habits.

    In other families with children that we know, there is variability too. It could be tempting to tut-tut at the obese Samoan mum whose daughter was my eldest's best friend when he started school, and has steadily got more and more chubby as the years since kindergarten have passed. But none of her other kids are like that. There's just the one. Having spent a lot of time with them, it seems to me like there's no real problem with the type of food offered. The problem is just that this one child likes to eat a lot more than the others, and it's available. For her, the problem isn't what she's eating, it really is how much.

    I don't know how you control that - it's not a problem I've faced, for me it's been the opposite problem all along.

    Perhaps some of it is a lack of any genuine will to do anything about it anyway. All of the women in the family that I've seen so far have been overweight to obese. Perhaps they would choke on the hypocrisy of trying to keep food under lock and key so that the little one can't overeat? Perhaps they don't even think being overweight is a bad thing, perhaps it's cultural? I don't think so, it's just a perhaps. From overheard comments, most of the women would prefer not to be fat. But it might not be a high priority. If so, there's a huge cultural momentum to shift, if we come to an earnest conclusion that something must be done (which I think is still not settled, nor ever will be).

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to BenWilson,

    Yes, they’re alternatives, and and no, they probably won’t have any really effect either. Not on obesity, that is, although all of them would lead to improved quality of life for a lot of people.

    Most of your post drives me nuts because it assumes that if you're obese you can't, by definition, be fit or healthy. That's bullshit. It also assumes that ALL obese people are fat because they eat a lot. That's also bullshit. And the third bullshit thing is that everyone seems to think that it's perfectly possible to become thin, long-term, when most studies show that long-term thinness through dieting is as rare as hen's teeth AND, moreover, yo-yo dieting actually has WORSE effects on your cardiovascular health than, y'know, not dieting and going for regular fucking walks. (I'm not talking out of my ass, either: if you would like peer-reviewed journal cites, I can hunt them out.) So the ideas in Megan's post would improve the *health* of people, and make them *happier*, but they might still be fat. SO WHAT?

    I'll be apologising to Katharine as soon as I become a big prog rock fan, btw.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    I think it is time we treated obesity (awful blaming word) as an impairment or even a chemical addiction for some people and respond with a version of the social model of disability. (Whereby people have impairments but society disables - therefore society as a whole has a responsibility to address the obesigenic /disabling environments, policies and attitudes which construct 'obesity'.)

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3226 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to ,

    How about a debriefe then? Why did Katharine deserve to be bullied.

    I don’t think she was being bullied, but the fact that she was being rounded on by everyone else was a factor in giving her a rest.

    She was, however, being obsessive and insulting to others and would not take the hint when I suggested she ease up. It needed to stop.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to ,

    Why did Katharine deserve to be bullied.

    When someone is saying things that are genuinely upsetting to other people - and I hope it's clear to everyone that this is an 'emotionally hot' topic for some people - it's not the person who responds who is causing the problem. This is Missing Stair stuff - the social expectation is that the people getting hurt will keep quiet to keep the peace. If they do speak up, they're condemned for causing trouble. They didn't: the person who hurt them did. If people behave badly, it's okay to treat them as if they've behaved badly. Katharine was asked to tone it down, she didn't.

    But this is not a thread about moderation.

    Ben's point about the chips being energy-dense food was basically what I meant by "fuelling" people. The chips are going to stop you feeling hungry. Your kids aren't going to be asking for more food in an hour. That's the thing about high-fat foods. (I have hypoglycaemia. I spent years trying to manage it using 'complex carbohydrates'. Turns out by far the best thing when I'm having a sweaty spinny meltdown is fat.) So it's not about 'nutrition', it's about 'energy'.

    But the thing is, biological organisms are complex. If it was as simple as 'energy in, energy out', then everybody's results would be the same. But, to take things to extreme for a moment, if you put me and my hypoglycaemia on the same food-exercise balance as someone with PCOS, you'd get vastly different results. And every individual is going to be somewhere on that continuum.

    But if you concentrate on exercise, there'll be health benefits for most people, whether or not they lose any weight. Surely that's preferable.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Danielle,

    Most of your post drives me nuts because it assumes that if you’re obese you can’t, by definition, be fit or healthy.

    Yes, I already write at far too great a length to have to reiterate points like that I reject that assumption constantly. I'm just moving ahead there with "Given the assumption that you want to reduce obesity". It's not necessarily true, and I lead in with that on the thread, but one can discuss how one might do that on the conditional assumption that it's true. That could be a productive discussion. Note, even in the post you're criticizing I end with the very condition you are stating that I make as an assumption:

    if we come to an earnest conclusion that something must be done (which I think is still not settled, nor ever will be).

    Reframing the discussion as "What can be done to get people healthier, wrt to their exercise and eating habits" is also worthwhile. The thread kind of presumes we're in agreement that getting the Government's Childhood Obesity plan working better is the topic of discussion, but sure, challenging that presumption doesn't hurt.

    It also assumes that ALL obese people are fat because they eat a lot. That’s also bullshit.

    It is. The line between too much and not enough is wafer thin. To maintain an exact weight, you have to keep adjusting, more if you're below, less if you're above. And you only have to be a little above for a sustained period for the cumulative gains to build. Which is extremely hard to judge, because there's massive variability bewteen individuals in how much is absorbed from a quantity of food, and how much is output in a quantity of exercise, and their BMR. For people that eat identical food, the weight they will reach can vary hugely.

    None of which refutes the point that the amount you eat affects your weight. It just means that comparing between individuals is not robust.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Heh. I love that while I was typing, I managed to say the same thing as Russell, and the same thing as Ben.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 6 7 8 9 10 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

This topic is closed.