Polity by Rob Salmond

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Polity: A week on from the housing controversy

185 Responses

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  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    Forelock's lament...

    ...outraged at at the drop of hat.

    There's trouble up at Milliner's, Guv!
    cap in hand of course...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7950 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I’m pretty much down with Liam Dann’s column today.

    TLDR: there is an issue of historic proportions looming with respect to Chinese capital outflows, but don’t make it about people or their ethnicity.

    If foreign speculators can't be barred from buying up houses, do FTAs still allow them to be taxed instead? Or would it still count as a 'trade barrier' as much as a tariff or import quota would?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Why do you want to tax foreigners in a discriminatory fashion?

    There are measures that could be taken (up to and including a 100% stamp duty on the marginal value of sales exceeding a certain percentage of GV) that would stop property inflation and hence remove the incentive to speculate.

    Do that, and you get back to a situation where you buy a house to live in, or to rent out for a cash profit, not an untaxed capital gain.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Curtis, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    If foreign speculators can’t be barred from buying up houses,

    Thats incorrect, as David Parker who was in the cabinet at the time has raised.
    Its spread by people in national who arent even sure which land in Auckland is owned by the government or been promised to others.
    You wouldn't rely on Nick Smith to tie his own shoelaces

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 314 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to ,

    The Kiwi dream of owning a home, bloody well is not slipping away.

    Careful there Steven, we wouldn’t want to upend the narrative as stated in the otherwise balanced Liam Dann piece that Russell linked to:

    "Auckland house prices have been identified as an issue of social concern for the New Zealand people."

    There will be no recount on that decision, it’s been identified, the media have hooked a worm, so concerned we must be, for this is Auckland - both figs mandatory.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • tony j ricketts, in reply to Ewan Morris,

    My questions for Rob are: Isn't property speculation the issue, rather than where someone comes from? Is property speculation OK if done by New Zealand residents?

    If it IS property speculation that's happening. As I understand it, people in China with significant cash have serious constraints on what they can do with it, including being told not to sell share they have bought, for example. So even if they don't sell their NZ property at a profit it can be helpful to have money/wealth away form their government's control.

    The Auckland scene is one where prices are sky-high, and a canny speculator buys at another point in the market, doesn't he?

    This is a complex issue, but an important one, and anyone seeming to try and corral it as a 'racism' issue is probably smokescreening.

    wellington • Since Aug 2012 • 41 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to ,

    The Kiwi dream of owning a home

    Is there any recent data about how true it still is? Media seem to love the idea, but then they get paid for real estate adverts.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to tony j ricketts,

    anyone seeming to try and corral it as a 'racism' issue

    Nice try. Most commenters I've seen in the last week have been quite clear there is a housing market issue, and then there is the way it has been presented by Labour.

    The only 'corralling' I've seen is a stream of folk who Rob's algorithm would never identify as Chinese proclaiming that it's not about racism at all.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to tony j ricketts,

    This is a complex issue, but an important one

    Agreed. That's why some of us are annoyed at how poorly it has been handled.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Sacha,

    Attachment

    Is there any recent data about how true it still is?

    I wonder whether any nationwide issue wouldn’t be centered around income. We’re not currently experiencing a nationwide jump like 02-03, are we? Time will tell.

    http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/key_graphs/house_prices_values/

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • SHG,

    I'm a non-Chinese New Zealand citizen living outside of New Zealand. If I own property in New Zealand am I "foreign money"?

    nup • Since Oct 2010 • 77 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to SHG,

    Depends if you have any person/organisation here with an IRD number and bank account you can pay through.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • SHG,

    I have an IRD number and bank account of my own. Does that mean I'm "hard-working Kiwi money" not "foreign money"?

    nup • Since Oct 2010 • 77 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to SHG,

    According to the current govt, yes.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • SHG,

    What if I have a Chinese-sounding name? Did I just screw up the stats somehow?

    nup • Since Oct 2010 • 77 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to SHG,

    the Lord of Parnell will forgive you.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Labour cares about this because the Kiwi dream of home ownership

    Sloganeering.
    Its not and never should be in the "dream" category of human activity. It is a necessity. Im pretty sure (I'm not a qualified naturalist) all land based mammals, yes we are just animals, need warmth and shelter. In the parlance of today, a home. This necessity has taken on grotesque forms.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1890 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to chris,

    We’re not currently experiencing a nationwide jump like 02-03, are we?

    I don't have figures on wages handy, but if you take total nationwide household disposable income from the reserve bank, and divide by the stats nz numbers of households, average household income peaked in Quarter 2 2013. So no.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to SHG,

    What if I have a Chinese-sounding name? Did I just screw up the stats somehow?

    One person cannot screw up aggregate statistics, pretty much by definition.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to SHG,

    I have an IRD number and bank account of my own. Does that mean I’m “hard-working Kiwi money” not “foreign money”?

    That's actually one of the problems with the government's chosen approach. As John Key has acknowledged, it will capture New Zealand citizens with foreign tax status.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to SHG,

    I’m a non-Chinese New Zealand citizen living outside of New Zealand. If I own property in New Zealand am I “foreign money”?

    If you converted an overseas currency to make that purchase, yes. More so if you leveraged that purchase (borrowed) in an overseas jurisdiction.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    You know, the "man of the people" schtick is getting really really tired.

    I don't own a house and I won't, probably, ever. My mother doesn't own a house. None of my siblings except my tradie brother and his working wife own a house. Although, *gasp*, I lived in Grey Lynn for a while - before the million-dollar houses. I grew up in state houses, including in Glen Innes and South Auckland (my family all live in South Auckland).

    What does your so-trenchant observation actually have to do with the topic under discussion?

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 701 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac,

    Breaking news: Chinese agent says clients local

    What was someone saying above about not having enough information on the actual data source?

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 701 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to TracyMac,

    Breaking news: Chinese agent says clients local

    Mairangi Bay? We live nearby, will (if everything goes to plan) will be sold up and moved back to Wellington(-ish) by Christmas and nobody will be getting their papers checked at the open home.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Sue,

    I want to be clear on this: Nobody should read anything in our data analysis as being critical of Kiwis who happen to have Chinese ethnicity

    Well that's happened
    HOW YOU GOING TO FIX IT?
    How are Labour going to fix it
    How are you going to fix the demonisation of not just chinese culture but anyone with asian descent?


    and there seem to be a lot of liberal minded statisticians and professional data visualisers just on this site alone. Why not get a separate analysis before going live? Why not canvas a few trusted people from around the country about the potential effect.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 527 posts Report Reply

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