Muse by Craig Ranapia

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Muse: The Very Odd Future According to Sandra Coney

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  • Rob Stowell,

    I’m sure it does. According to your quote, it also shares some of the same lyrics.

    I ’spect it started out as the same song :) Seem to remember scorched earth playing it, way back when. After a couple of decades of sonic abuse at that level, its own mum* wouldn’t know it.
    * or dad. No idea who wrote it.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2110 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Rageaholic,

    But on the other hand, the owner in this case is the government and the government deciding which shows are ok in which venues makes me uncomfortable.

    Ditto. And that's why we have the BORA. Which clearly applies to the Auckland Council in this instance. But somehow, I suspect they didn't bother to consider the public's freedom of expression. Sadly, there seems to be very little we an do legally about such well-meaning dickery.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1716 posts Report Reply

  • Grant McDougall,

    The problem with banning one bunch of musos for their refering to and / or advocating of something bad / stupid / illegal / evil is that if we were to ban every act that somehow refered / advocated such things, there'd almost be no music scene at all and all we'd have available to listen to is Cliff Richard. Brrrrrr...

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2006 • 760 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Idiot Savant,

    Sadly, there seems to be very little we an do legally about such well-meaning dickery.

    Legally, no. But when I get the OIA requests out of the way, I'll be posting links to this to Len Brown and the members of the Parks, Recreation and Heritage Forum asking if 1) They were aware of Cr. Coney's actions, and I can find no evidence in the minutes on-line they were. And if not, whether they support them.

    As I said above, if she went rogue and is acting as a one-woman arbiter of what constitutes appropriate discourse in public space there are a whole new set of issues involved. And in Brown's position, I'd be questioning whether she's a fit person for the position.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • DCBCauchi,

    The word iconoclast has completely changed its meaning. It originally referred to zealots who roamed the land destroying anything they didn't like.

    Cos it is not enough to not go near it themselves. That's not zealotry. Zealots need to ensure that no-one can. Their way of winning arguments is underhanded. They can't compromise. Not one bloody inch. They can't live with different points of view. They won't tolerate it.

    Not till we're all singing the same tune. I suspect ants actually have more culture.

    Everything changes and everything stays the same. Lots of good material but.

    Since Feb 2011 • 320 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    Sadly, there seems to be very little we an do legally about such well-meaning dickery.

    (I am kind of curious as to the legal position. It would seem to me that Beggs is pretty on point here. ( Baigent too I guess.) And that would appear to suggest that there should be legal recourse available.)

    Non-legally, I would suggest one pretty easy thing is for to people write to the Council and Ms Coney and let them know that her actions are not acceptable. (If you live in her ward, think about mentioning the fact that you'll remember this when it comes to local body elections.)

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Sick of It,

    No one really seems to grasp the full issue here. This has nothing, and should have nothing to do with politicians and their worthless attempts to protect youth from their own fears. Constantly we are being told no because they feel they are doing us a huge favor in taking away our power to decide. Not only do they feel the need to take from us what is not theirs, what they should not be able to take, but they also do so without any responsibility. And to do so in such a hypocritical way.
    What are you so scared of? That a bunch of middle-class, white boys and girls (the overwhelming majority of OF listeners) will drop their shit, turn on the gay community and spread their supposed message of hate. Grow up. - No don't say I'm being racist in highlighting the target audience, it wouldn't matter who listened to them you would be scared of them anyway.

    Yes I am an Odd future fan and yes I find this action to ban an art form detestable.
    No one gave a squirt of piss (those of you who know the reference good on you, those who do not you should do some research) when Rammstein came to BDO. And I bet they have not heard "Pussy" or seen the video clip. Why did no one care? Because its not Hip-Hop. Grow the fuck up. Stop looking at music to solve complex social problems which you cannot do anything about.

    wellington • Since Nov 2011 • 1 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    I did try to have a listen to this Odd Future crowd to see what all the fuss was about, but for some mysterious reason, when I tried to bring up a video of one of their songs, the sound was turned off, and my touchpad is munted. I can't imagine, however, that their songs are any more vile or homophobic or explicitly lyriced than many other outfits of their age, and origins. Whether that be hiphop or gangsta rap or whatever. Besides which, Ms Coney has to realise that the audience at the BDO isn't, in the main, anything but teenagers, And teenagers toss around homophobic, sexist taunts as a matter of course. I don't see that banning one group is going to fix that.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Sick of It,

    No one really seems to grasp the full issue here. This has nothing, and should have nothing to do with politicians and their worthless attempts to protect youth from their own fears.

    I think plenty of people reading and commenting here grasp that issue. I realise you're pissed off, but there's no need to be slinging off at everyone else in the discussion.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22848 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Thanks, Russell.

    Sick of It: First, welcome to PAS and hope you’ll hang around. You’re really preaching to the choir on the point R. picked out, but as I said the simple reality is that Auckland City, one way or another, has its fingers in a hell of a lot of venues and performance space in this town. So, yeah, as a citizen and ratepayer, I think Coney crossed all kinds of lines. And the BDO caved.

    FWIW, I also agree with you about Rammstein – if you want to talk about shock and awful tactics that outstay their welcome very quickly the video for “Mein Teil” is even more gag worthy than ‘Pussy’. (No, I'm not going to link to either and SERIOUS TRIGGER WARNING to anyone tempted to find them on You Tube.) Don’t remember a peep when they played the BDO either, but I guess tasteless militaristic-Satanic BDSM grindhouse camp is what those crazy Germans do.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Yup, another gold-digging uppity ho gets put in her place. Which might speak to the truth of where Public Enemy was at, but it sure ain’t no party song.

    ‘She watch channel zero’ has some…interesting….lyrics.

    The woman makes the men all pause
    And if you got a woman
    She might make you forget yours
    There’s a 5 letter word
    To describe her character
    But her brains being washed by an actor
    And every real man that tries to approach
    Come the closer he comes
    He gets dissed like a roach

    [Flavor Flav:] Yo baby, you got to cut that garbage off. Yo! I wanna watch the game. Yo, cut that garbage off now. Yo, I got the
    Tyson fight on, you know what I’m sayin’? Yo, we gettin’ ready to
    watch the Super Bowl, we got a black quarterback so step back.

    Although it’s the first track that got me interested in hip-hop, as Terminator-X cuts up a Slayer riff in the background beats.

    No one gave a squirt of piss (those of you who know the reference good on you, those who do not you should do some research) when Rammstein came to BDO. And I bet they have not heard “Pussy” or seen the video clip. Why did no one care? Because its not Hip-Hop.

    Well, Heavy Metal fought it’s own wars against censorship a couple of decades ago. And Rammstein get a pass because it’s, like, ironic and shit, yeah?

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Grant McDougall,

    all we’d have available to listen to is Cliff Richard

    He's out too, because of 'Devil Woman'. :)

    I've argued about Tyler the Creator with a friend before. He was all 'this has no value!' and I wasn't happy with that assertion. I have a long history of loving songs which make me a Bad Feminist (TM), and I often ignore lyrics anyway in favour of other things like beat or flow. I also note that this kind of lyrical thing in hiphop particularly is often a sort of crazed braggadocio which is meant to make people laugh with how horrible/excessive it is, and/or meant to rark up middle-class middle-aged people. But OTOH... it's kind of gross and hate-validating, even if it does sound cool. Thus, I fence-sit, pathetically.

    (This is all apart from the issue of avoiding normal Council process, which I agree is quite dodgy.)

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Speaking of inappropriate councillor behaviour...

    Pull your damn head in, Cameron Brewer!

    Outrageous Fortune star Robyn Malcolm, who made an outspoken attack on John Key's record, is to front an Auckland Council campaign to encourage recycling...

    Auckland councillor Cameron Brewer wants Malcolm axed, saying she is "too partisan" to front the plan, and will "further paint the council into a left-wing political corner".

    "Given Robyn Malcolm is clearly so anti the Government and the Prime Minister, she is far too partisan to front this all-important public consultation and plan," Mr Brewer said.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Brewer should be investigated on the the strength of that bias.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Danielle,

    I think we had this go-round a while back, and I really hope Cr. Coney doesn't start paying any attention to Opera NZ's steady diet of popular fare where the bitches bring the cray-cray, find a spot on the Madonna-Whore spectrum and (mostly) drop dead at the end. Really, do we want that trash stinking up the Aotea Center?

    For the record, I love opera and I've now up-graded to from DVD to wearing a groove in a BluRay of Gone With The Wind. I am aware of my own cultural inconsistencies.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Danielle,

    He's out too, because of 'Devil Woman'. :)

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Any more jazz hands from a velour-clad Sir Cliff and I will bring down the ban-hammer. That's just nasty.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to 3410,

    Speaking of inappropriate councillor behaviour...

    MUSE cares about the environment, and has just released its #EvilRobyn Eradication Policy. The penalty for non-compliance will be Loretta West burning your house down.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg, in reply to Danielle,

    ...and/or meant to rark up middle-class middle-aged people

    And to some extent, it worked in this case. I think it's getting harder and harder to provoke an outrage, so the lyrics get more and more OTT. Once it was enough to have long hair to be deemed a menace to society. However, IMH(and possibly condescending)O the underlying intent of long hair and these lyrics is to ...

    ... rark up middle-class middle-aged people

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 802 posts Report Reply

  • Angus Robertson,

    Question: if you are promoting Odd Futures tour how is the best way to approach GayNZ to induce some free publicity?

    Auckland • Since May 2007 • 984 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Young,

    Anyhoo, Other Craig, many thanks for inaugurating this debate. I've penned an article for Gaynz.Com on the subject which tries to clarify the issue by pinning down what hate speech and hate propaganda/media content are, explains media effects theory to laypeople, and is firmly anti-censorship.

    And hey, given my strong disapproval of hijack attempts directed against OutTakes and LA Zombies earlier this year, why wouldn't we agree on this one?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 573 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    (I am kind of curious as to the legal position. It would seem to me that Beggs is pretty on point here. ( Baigent too I guess.) And that would appear to suggest that there should be legal recourse available.)

    A legal solution would require someone with standing to take a case. Which can only be the BDO. Who have already clearly decided that its not worth their while to fight it.

    Sadly, ordinary citizens have no-one to enforce our right to a city council which respects freedom of speech.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1716 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    The Human Rights Commission?

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    A legal solution would require someone with standing to take a case. Which can only be the BDO. Who have already clearly decided that its not worth their while to fight it.

    Why would it have to be Big Day Out? After all, it isn't just Big Day Out who've (assuming that Coney's actions are unlawful) had their free speech rights curtailed.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    assuming that Coney's actions are unlawful

    Am I right in thinking we don't have any evidence yet of Councillor Coney actually *doing* anything. Only a claim of influence over a commercial organisation's decision to not contract another party as a performer.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

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