Muse: Hey Greg O'Connor, Krup You!
105 Responses
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
+1
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Clint Fern, in reply to
I am guessing you are Caucasian, I know well those that feel differently.
100% correct. Oh dear I'm not doing this very well. My first post was trying to slate O'Connor / Collins and I came across as 'all police are terrible'. Trying to address this I seem to have gone they're all fluffy puppies. Better be more precise.
OK, this can't be ambiguous and I'm happy to stand by it - Greg O'Connor is a nasty twatcock who harms the interest of police union members and the wider public. I see no excuse for his inflamatory stance with regard to almost any issue. OK maybe I'm being inflamatory but I'm not in any position of official responsibility.
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
Greg O’Connor is a nasty twatcock who harms the interest of police union members and the wider public.
As a union rep is he not elected by his peers?
Which, by definition means...
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Steve Parks, in reply to
Vangam, it can be both. Your contention that he peacefully expressed displeasure at "what was happening" doesn't preclude it being a dick move.
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Sean Murgatroyd, in reply to
Steve, Union Reps are employed by their unions. Delegates are selected by their peers. Motions put to the union as a whole are voted on by that part of the union that is in attendance at that meeting, and there are quora and voting levels that would be required before the management of a union could be disestablished - and thus their designated representative fired.
I'm not sure how that even plays out in employment law, but suffice to say, Greg O'Connor is not elected by his peers, which by definition means...
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I take it back... he's the President of the association, an elected representative. Discussions around quora, and whether Greg O'Connor personally represents the individual policeman when he talks to the nation still apply. Does Mr Key represent me?
While the police association only disclose their full range of advocacy services to members, they do list:
Conveying members’ concerns to the Police Department, the media and the public. While individual members are restricted in what they can say publicly, there are no such restrictions on the Association.
and
Supporting members who have been disadvantaged or unfairly treated, and acting as advocate in personal grievances.
The individual cop might have made the wrong decision - and I strongly believe he did - but he has been disadvantaged in conducting his job the minute Tiki Taane chose to make this matter a media one by posting to his website - the earliest mention of the story is here, and it's all Tiki there.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, O'Connor is the only person associated with the police who can defend the individual police officer, and sure entrenched views come about. Wouldn't you provide the strongest defence possible?
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Tiki Taane chose to make this matter a media one by posting to his website – the earliest mention of the story is here, and it’s all Tiki there.
No, Sean, the media decided to make this a media matter by reporting that Taane had been arrested. Think it's not exactly reasonable to say he should have said nothing, but O'Connor is able to make unchallenged claims that Taane, not to put too fine a point on it, is lying and fully intends to perjure himself because he's a union official.
I don't know if you've noticed, but Public Address is generally of a left-liberal persuasion. Not heard anyone here saying unions shouldn't advocate for their members - not even the house Tory (that would be me, BTW).
But I've got to agree with Brian Edwards here:
Police Association President, Greg O’Connor does himself and the police officers he represents a grave disservice by assuming the role of Counsel for the Defence with every complaint or criticism that is levelled against his members. I use the word ‘every’ advisedly, since I honestly cannot remember an occasion when I have heard Mr O’Connor admit that the police had got it wrong or when he failed to present a rationale or excuse for their behaviour. The result is that the currency of his argument is debased. No sensible person believes that the police are without flaw or that they always get it right. Yet that essentially seems to be Mr O’Connor’s position.
I'd go a little further, his attack on Taane is standard issue. Anyone who criticises the police in any way, shape or form (including disagreeing with him however mildly) isn't just mistaken. They're criminal-coddling, cop-hating wimps who don't care if police officers die in the gutter.
Well, he can go get stuffed.
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BTW, Sean, I find the following rather disturbing:
Conveying members’ concerns to the Police Department, the media and the public. While individual members are restricted in what they can say publicly, there are no such restrictions on the Association.
Might want to think about what those "restrictions" are -- and whether it's such a bad thing they exist.
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Apropos, kind of, the topic, a note to musos that the Australian Music Industry Network (AMIN) has just released a music industry legal pack.
I'm not sure that it covers dealing with censorious police, of course. But perhaps a NZ industry body might consider preparing one that does.
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vangam, in reply to
... the house Tory (that would be me, BTW).
And you wear it sooooo well.
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Sean Murgatroyd, in reply to
Cheers Craig. Agree as usual, and up to a point, as usual. Definitely agree that O'Connor's talking out his bum, but I still think we're fighting his bullshit with ours - and we do better to call him on his style than his words, because it elevates the discussion above the flame war level. I've seen - and enjoyed - a bunch of flame wars, and witnessed not a lot of change out of any of them. Ripping good fun though, what?
All the war stories featured here - and I've lived them alongside the rest of us liberals and creatives - don't offer the police a way out of a sick culture, just a reason not to find that way out. Let's engage them as human beings. Who knows, it might even work?
Might want to think about what those “restrictions” are – and whether it’s such a bad thing they exist.
I know what the restrictions are. I'm a career civil servant. I don't think it's a bad thing they exist. Don't know where you get off telling me what I might want to think about in the first place, when you 're no more telepathic than Mr O'Connor. ;)
Have thoughts. Going to post in my little nook. Mentions you - not having a go, just discussing the discourse with here as the jumping off point. Will @ if it suits, otherwise will let it rest in my little nook. Love having a Tory on board Public Address - it's got me reinvolved, because left rhetoric in a vacuum is one long yawnfest to this boy whose granddad had Mickey Joe, Norm Kirk and Bill Rowling as his personal trinity - so thanks to both you and Russell for taking that step.
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Elsewhere, Deborah Coddington is predictably fatuous and intellectually dishonest.
But the message on his Facebook page warranted challenging. "Freedom of speech is a human right," it claimed. Quite, but context is everything and that freedom does not extend to shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre. Sensible musicians would think of that before choosing lyrics which provoke police officers doing their jobs.
Even one of Taane's supporters, who thought the police might have over-reacted, admitted the song might have been a "poor choice".
I often wonder who the writers and singers of songs like this call when their houses are burgled or families are attacked. Do they look at their ravaged property, or shattered loved ones, shrug and say, "Let them get away with it. Don't call the cops. F*** the police"?
I often wonder what possessed Coddington to pull an Asian crime wave out of her arse -- then have a prolonged sulk when it was comprehensively debunked. But I guess Coddington's not the only pundit for whom free speech is only for people who look and sound and think like her...
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Sacha, in reply to
pull an Asian crime wave out of her arse
Nah, they're Maaaries this time.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Nah, they’re Maaaries this time.
And it's interesting how Coddington pulls out the incitement line (in the most incoherent and dishonest way possible) that she hotly rejected when people suggested her own work was irresponsible and beat up hostility towards Asian immigrants.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
I often wonder what possessed Coddington to pull an Asian crime wave out of her arse -- then have a prolonged sulk when it was comprehensively debunked.
That latest article cops out by resorting to emotional arguments. If she'd written an feature titled "Polynesian Peril", she probably would have done a Salman Rushdie or a Theo van Gogh. I suspect Asians were seen as an easy target at the time, and got more than she bargained for.
And what's next? A Clear Channel-esque "don't play" list?
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And while they're at it, will they censor the Grand Theft Auto lineup too?
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I often wonder who the writers and singers of songs like this call when their houses are burgled or families are attacked. Do they look at their ravaged property, or shattered loved ones, shrug and say, "Let them get away with it. Don't call the cops. F*** the police"?
White privilege theatre ahoy! What kind of opaque bubble does 'swallop live in?? Surely the point is that "writers and singers of songs like this" do think "don't call the cops, f*** the police" about their shattered loved ones, and many have good reason.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Surely the point is that “writers and singers of songs like this” do think “don’t call the cops, f*** the police” about their shattered loved ones, and many have good reason.
Indeed - and I lived in a flat that got broken into three times. The only reason we bothered calling the Police the third time was for insurance purposes.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
And what’s next? A Clear Channel-esque “don’t play” list?
That's just bizarre -- but to be fair to Clear, it wasn't the only, or the worse, case of media over-sensitivity following the 9/11 attacks. And, IIRC, it was pretty much ignored. IWhat wasn't ignored by the BBC was Split Enz's "provocative" Six Months in a Leaky Boat being "discouraged from airplay" during the Falklands.
When I was a young boy
I wanted to sail around the world
That's the life for me, living on the sea
Spirit of a sailor, circumnavigates the globe
The lust of a pioneer, will acknowledge
No frontier
I remember you by, thunderclap in the sky
Lightning flash, tempers flare,
'round the horn if you dare
I just spent six months in a leaky boat
Lucky just to keep afloatAotearoa, rugged individual
Glisten like a pearl
At the bottom of the world
The tyranny of distance
Didn't stop the cavalier
So why should it stop me
I'll conquer and stay free
Ah c'mon all you lads
Let's forget and forgive
There's a world to explore
Tales to tell back on shore
I just spent six months in a leaky boat
Six months in a leaky boat.If you can find a political syllable in the above, I want what you're taking. :)
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Given that a bunch of people tried to get Jackson's film adaption of "The Two Towers" renamed to something else after planes flew into two towers on 9/11, people clearly have a fantastic ability to draw stupid shit out of anything.
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Sacha, in reply to
'swallop
like
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
White privilege theatre ahoy! What kind of opaque bubble does 'swallop live in??
A razor-wired, concrete-walled, security-guarded one?
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Shihad were forced to rename themselves Death to the Infidel Unbelievers, Die! Die! Die! after the attacks on NYC. (OK, they chose the much duller name Pacifier and still didn’t crack the US)
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OK, they chose the much duller name Pacifier and still didn’t crack the US)
I'd almost forgotten. Sell Outs!111
"He said, `Where do you live?' I said, `At the moment I live in Papamoa and I live in Woodhill and I'm staying at a hotel', so he thought I was being a smart ass and in fact I was being co-operative.
"I was giggling and this probably rarked him up as well. I was giggling because it was just ridiculous that this police officer was getting upset with me because I was telling him the truth."
Sounds more like it.
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Many, many years ago, three St Mary's Old Girls (I was one of them) were standing on the side of the footpath in Willis St one Friday night, talking excitedly, which one did when seeing old school mates - we hadn't long been out of school uniform, and seeing one another in mufti was just too exciting for words.
Imagine our utter surprise (and delight) when a constable, probably not much older than we were, told us to move on. We laughed. He got very shitty and threatening. We moved on....
Only human. Ego wins often.
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