Muse by Craig Ranapia

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Muse: Hey Greg O'Connor, Krup You!

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  • Clint Fern,

    Although they may have been more indie-than-thou this ancient lyric by McCarthy seems pertinent.

    My name is Dave
    I killed my brother
    I whacked an axe through his head
    On the hottest day of the year
    My blood was boiling
    I said, "You're dying"
    And so the blood flowed

    I'm in jail
    The press were eager to question me
    "How could you do such a thing?"

    My father hated me
    He always took my brother's side
    For Christmas he would get a car
    And I'd be given 50p
    All alone in my room
    Just a Bible
    Of Cain and and Abel I'd read

    How my heart bled for Cain
    He had problems but God ignored them
    It made me so mad

    I'm in jail
    When the story broke
    Placards read
    "Now should the bible be banned?"

    I'm in jail
    When the story broke
    Placards read
    "Now should the bible be banned?"

    The Home Secretary is looking closely into it
    Could a copycat killer copy the Book of Genesis?

    Should the bible be banned
    To keep the peace?

    Nelson • Since Jul 2010 • 64 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Clint Fern,

    I don't know that that's fair, Clint. I have a couple of friends who are police officers. One's a bit old school at times, but the other is a lovely young man. Both of them have had abuse hurled at them for absolutely no reason than that they were there. I think there really is ALOT more disrespect for the police than there used to be. I think the reasons for that are myriad, but either way, it can't be easy for the good ones.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew E, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    One thing I worry about alot recently is how very easily we could go back to that ugliness, with all the seemingly draconian legislation currently being pushed through.

    Yes, like misusing urgency tonight to shove through laws on file sharing.

    174.77 x 41.28 • Since Sep 2008 • 200 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Andrew E,

    Exactly.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Clint Fern, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    Sorry Jackie, I must have been a bit opaque and mentioning that song certainly would have muddied the intention. I wasn't denying that there are a lot of problems with the attitude to the police by part of the population which a very large percentage of them certainly don't deserve.

    I just have no sympathy with the O'Connor / Collins types (most of whom aren't involved on the frontline) who help create conflict. I remember Meurant coming out in an interview saying that there was a whole us against them attitude through parts of the police force and of course the police have improved since then but I'd guess there are still elements that would promote that kind of thing to the detriment of the good cops like your friends.

    Living 'at the epicentre of the civilized world' (c) Smithies, I have to say all the cops I've come into contact with here have been good as gold with me, so I'd pick that most of the bad ones are in positions like O'Connors.

    Nelson • Since Jul 2010 • 64 posts Report Reply

  • SHG,

    In this clash between a young Maori man and the police, I must say my sympathies lie with whichever side does not use the word "thorts".

    nup • Since Oct 2010 • 77 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Clint Fern,

    Oh yes, Collins does remind me somewhat of Meurant. He had a very nasty and dismissive way about him which she seems to be emulating. As for Greg O'Connor, I understand his stance in that anything any member of his union does could not possibly be wrong. He is a bit indiscrimate, but.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Ken Sparks,

    Hopefully the judge will dismiss the case, O'Connor will shut up and the cop/s who made the arrest will be told to calm down. Then the Police can get on with all the stuff they're supposed to be doing and Tiki can carry on entertaining us with whatever words he chooses...

    Cox’s Creek • Since Apr 2011 • 60 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to joshua grigg,

    Now it's such a big story it's hard for an organisation like the police to admit that it might have been a silly arrest to make and withdraw the charges.

    Under the circumstances, having a new top cop, Peter Marshall, I expect repercussions or are we to expect more of the same divisive bullshit we have become used to under Broad and his unworthy assistant. The fact that we have that people hating Collins as minister I expect more of the same.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Clint Fern,

    I have to say all the cops I’ve come into contact with here have been good as gold with me,

    I am guessing you are Caucasian, I know well those that feel differently.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    In my whanau, some of us look Maori, some of us look Pakeha, some of us just look different* – that’s the way it goes when you have several ancestries.

    But, no prizes for guessing who gets hassled by city police-**

    doesnt happen anywhere near so much in rural areas because rural cops get to know the people who live in ‘their’ areas.

    *No! I’m not mentioning my squid persona! I’m waving my hand as an asexual who dresses the way I feel comfortable.

    Aw, c’mon – try! Chance a viewpoint! Ve haf squidbits for a prize!*

    ***Well, actually, ve haf Heartlands chips but – shrug.

    Geeez, that's the first time I've ever managed to put some comment into bold. And
    (sob) accidentally. Dance your own mind round the asterisks!

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    I agree with those saying that it looks like a dick move to sing that particular song just as the police were doing what I understand was a routine check. But if being a dick got you arrested and charged, Micheal Laws should be perennially before the courts.

    Risking an auto-derail here. but my issues with so-called “hate speech” laws are a wee bit more nuanced that “PC gone mad”; more “good intentions causing more problems than they solve’.

    Always glad to help with derails. I consider “hate speech” laws pretty ridiculous. And yeah, partly because they lead to ridiculous decisions.

    (Okay, that’s not technically an example of hate speech law as such, but it's the same approach. Besides, if you’re going to find reason to censor ‘Money for Nothing’, then at least take the opportunity to censor the whole damn song.)

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1165 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    And in spite of the 'blue wall of silence' and GregO's rhetoric, the thin blue line doesn't always speak with one voice.

    Funny thing is, Meurant mellowed out and spilt the beans about the Tait-era force. He wasn't particularly glowing about it.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5445 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Aw, c’mon – try! Chance a viewpoint! Ve haf squidbits for a prize!*

    Oh Gosh. wiggly bits ;-)

    Up here, in my second home, we have the problem of tourists. Don't get me wrong, we love them really, well, their money anyway. So, at holiday season we "have" to have extra cops imported. These tend to be new cops and as such, they tend to be a little over zealous. Add to that the seasonal crop cops and you have a "situation".
    Many locals resent this intrusion and many fall foul of the change in lifestyle that is forced on them by the sudden increase in "Law and Order", why?. Well many of them came here to get away from the oppressive attitude that you get from impersonal policing in the city and why many of them say "Fuck the police".

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Close Up had Tiki and O'Connor's versions of events (stream, 9m).

    Here's the keen police union rep from the text summary:

    But Police Association president Greg O'Connor said Taane's version is fictional.

    "This is nothing to do with the words of a song," O'Connor told Close Up.

    O'Connor said police deal with bad language every day and it is like a term of endearment. He said in this instance a fight started on the dance floor when one of the patrons was annoying some of the women.

    He said wisely the police didn't get involved but watched the bouncers shadow them out. The mood changed and that's when the music started and the crowd joined in the chanting, O'Connor said.

    He said police got it sorted at the time and went back later for a chat.

    "That was where he (Taane) went off and refused to co-operate," O'Connor said. He said police had no intention to arrest when they went back but were forced into a corner by the unco-operative singer. The situation could have got out of control, O'Connor believes.

    "His (Taane's) actions were then completely unreasonable and he was completely out of control."

    From the clip (5m40 on), O'Connor claims the offense of provoking violence occured during the later re-visit, not the original one.

    I imagine he might be deemed to have prejudiced a fair trial..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Sacha,

    “That was where he (Taane) went off and refused to co-operate,” O’Connor said. He said police had no intention to arrest when they went back but were forced into a corner by the unco-operative singer.

    So why did they arrest the bar manager and the DJ and why did they go back?.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • vangam,

    Police summary; read 'here are the police behaving like angels and here is joe citizen provoking them beyond their limits'. Yeah right.

    I wonder what did Taane refuse to co-operate with exactly?

    I wouldn't be surprised if this is partly a reaction on Taane's part to years of persecution and discrmination from the fuzz. Perhaps it all boiled over that night?

    Rangiora • Since Jun 2007 • 103 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    I wouldn't rely on O'Connor's account given that he wasn't even there

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to vangam,

    partly a reaction on Taane's part to years of persecution and discrmination from the fuzz.

    he seemed pretty relaxed about them in that interview

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sean Murgatroyd,

    Here's the thing. Are we not putting our spin on it, as much as O'Connor is? Is not what actually happened - an unknown box from this side of the keyboard - more important than our, or his views on it? Are we then talking about his because we can't open that box, however insightful we may be?

    If we are talking about institutionalised hatred, does it happen in a vacuum, or do we cocreate it every time we criticise the person and not the role? We're not doing good discourse analysis if we say "O'Connor puts the police in a good light every time." That's what he's paid to do.

    Let's talk about his language. When he says "he believes the public will back..." let us ask him for evidence for that belief. Is it a matter of faith, or has he done a survey? Offering him polemic is fighting him on his own turf.

    New Zealand • Since Apr 2011 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    But Police Association president Greg O’Connor said Taane’s version is fictional.

    Well, he would say that – wouldn’t he? I expect a union mouthpiece to advocate for his members, but I’m tired of O’Connor getting a free pass to make allegations like that basically unchallenged.

    Of course, if Taane has gone on Close Up and accused a police officer of lying to the media (presumably fully intending to go on to perjure themselves in court) he’d be screaming blue murder. But with Greg it always seems to be a case of “do what I say, don’t say what I do” doesn’t it?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • vangam, in reply to Sacha,

    he seemed pretty relaxed about them in that interview

    Well, its never a good look to lose your rag on television.

    Rangiora • Since Jun 2007 • 103 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    How come all unions are a bad apart from the police one?
    No need to answer that one.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    but I’m tired of O’Connor getting a free pass to make allegations like that basically unchallenged.

    I'd also note that Taane will be appearing on Friday at the Tauranga District Court, where his version of events will be presented under oath and open to cross examination from opposing counsel. The same applies to the officers who were actually there.

    I will do all parties and their representation the courtesy of assuming they know what perjury is, and why it's considered a serious offence.

    O'Connor gets to make his allegations while receiving a well-moisturised on-air handjob from Mark Sainsbury, hardly the poster boy for hard news.

    The next time O'Connor alleges someone is a malicious liar, he should get his own day in court -- defending a libel suite.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • vangam, in reply to Steve Parks,

    I agree with those saying that it looks like a dick move to sing that particular song just as the police were doing what I understand was a routine check.

    Or it was simply a way for Taane to peacefully express his displeasure with what was happening?

    Rangiora • Since Jun 2007 • 103 posts Report Reply

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