Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Te Qaeda and the God Squad

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  • Craig Ranapia,

    They might both be right.

    Or they may both be wrong, and have given certain folks a little more weight than they really deserve. Remains to be seen I guess... unless it's all suppressed.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    BenWilson:
    "Sam F, the army will take over in that situation, not gangs. But dude, if it pans out the way you say, it's a world of shit anyway. You'll want a shooter, sure, but you won't last long either way."

    All that stuff was quoted from Kyle Chapman's essay on the Survival Club website, and it wasn't exactly admiring quotage on my part either...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1609 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    unless it's all suppressed.

    I hope it isn't. This is all quite freaky stuff, whether you are an activist who is worried that you are going to be next, or soemone who is concerned about paramilitary types coming down out of the hills with guns. At the moment, the police are saying 'Trust us', but given their past record, I think they are on notice, and they need to prove that they are worth of trust. They had better be right.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1447 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    At the moment, the police are saying 'Trust us', but given their past record, I think they are on notice, and they need to prove that they are worth of trust. They had better be right.

    QFT - and I know the usual suspects will start bleating about how it's anti-cop, pro-'terrorist' etc. to say any such thing, but screw it. I think we've seen ample evidence that there's some very, very strange people out there; and it sure looks like Tame Iti has little regard for firearms law, and is one hell of a drama queen. But once you put the T-word out there (and don't ask me to believe that the Police haven't been strategically leaking like mad), you've gt to not only make a case that will stand up, but be seen to do so.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Dunno if you saw the TV3 news last night, but they spoke to Lockett's supporters outside the court after he had his bail denied.

    VERY strange lot.

    The "Treaty Crimes Investigation Unit", apparently. With very official looking ID cards and everything.

    Weren't they!

    The video is on the TV3 website.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22843 posts Report Reply

  • Bob Munro,

    was someone actually charged with "terrorism" for that kind of intent you wonder about the watering down of the seriousness of the crime though.

    Che, No - not charged in the end, probably due to the very 'watering down' you mention.

    Christchurch • Since Aug 2007 • 418 posts Report Reply

  • Bob Munro,

    Colonel Kilgore: I love the smell of napalm in the morning, it smells like...victory.
    Captain Willard: So why did you napalm the whole village?
    Col. Kilgore: Because charlie don't surf.
    Apocalypse Now.
    Charlie don't surf and we think he should, charlie don't surf and you know that it ain't no good, charlie don't surf for his hamburger mama, charlie's going to be a napalm star.
    The Clash, Charlie Don't Surf.

    Here’s another one merc from Michael Connelly’s latest book ‘The Overlook’.

    Bosch watched with growing dread as the members of the OHS chambered rounds in their weapons and put on helmets with face shields. Two of the men, who had been designated as the radiation containment team, began climbing into space suits.
    ‘This is crazy,’ Ferras said in a whisper.
    ‘Charlie don’t surf,’ Bosch replied.
    ‘What?’
    ‘Nothing. Before your time’.

    Christchurch • Since Aug 2007 • 418 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    Terry Pratchett's Monstrous Regiment. Best illogical Vietnam flashbacks ever.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1609 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    But once you put the T-word out there (and don't ask me to believe that the Police haven't been strategically leaking like mad), you've gt to not only make a case that will stand up, but be seen to do so.

    Of course. And just quietly, I think the police are gagging to present evidence. I would think it was relatively unusual for them to have 18 months' surveillance to draw on. There'll be emails, texts, videos and photographs. Whether that means convictions, or even charges, under the SoTA remains to be seen.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22843 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    It is no coincidence that this happened between the first and second reading of the ammendment to the SoTA.
    Think about it.

    Ok, I did. For 2 seconds. From what I have read this bill is going to be passed by about 110 to 10. Given its negative nature and the support of National why the hell would the Government/Cops contrive an event to bring unwanted attention to the bill. That claim is nonsense. Think about it.

    What seems more likely is that those opposed to the bill are using this incident to bring more rigorous attention to its content.

    I would also note that the suspects were arrested, charged, put in front of a judge and granted/denied bail in a matter of days. This is not the UK or USA where they could have languished for months under interrogation.

    That being said, I concur with the likes of Idiot Savant, let's keep it this way.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1645 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I think the police are gagging to present evidence. I would think it was relatively unusual for them to have 18 months' surveillance to draw on. There'll be emails, texts, videos and photographs. Whether that means convictions, or even charges, under the SoTA remains to be seen.

    Fair point, I just hope the prosecutors aren't the kind of people who think have a psychedelic Che Guevara poster on the walls of your student flat thirty years ago is tantamount to a life membership in the Communist Party of Aotearoa. I'm open to be proven wrong here, but I'm wondering if there aren't a handful of nuts who should be done (and done hard) on firearms charges, and a hell of a lot of creepy but fundamentally harmless radical chic posturing around the edges.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    __It is no coincidence that this happened between the first and second reading of the ammendment to the SoTA.

    Think about it.__

    Ok, I did. For 2 seconds. From what I have read this bill is going to be passed by about 110 to 10. Given its negative nature and the support of National why the hell would the Government/Cops contrive an event to bring unwanted attention to the bill. That claim is nonsense.

    Think about it.

    What seems more likely is that those opposed to the bill are using this incident to bring more rigorous attention to its content.

    Yeah, I thought about it too, and came to the same conclusions as you. The amendment bill is is going to pass with a majority of 100 and until this week's events would have done so largely without controversy. Now, everyone's talking about it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22843 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Bomber mulls over his starring role in today's news story.

    Check out the first comment. I'm really struck by the arrogance of some of the people in the "activist" movement, but I suppose I would say that, being a bourgeois enabler and everything.

    And a fairly weird blog post from Stephen Franks.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22843 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    Treaty Crimes Investigation Unit?

    so... that'll be people pissed off with the "foreshore raupatu" then?

    and where is manakura when you need him?

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Treaty Crimes Investigation Unit?

    Treaty Crimes Investigation Authority, actually.

    They looked like the kind of people you can imagine joining Zenith Applied Philosophy, actually: weird middle-aged men.

    Not exactly where I'd look first for life coaching ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22843 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    Creon writ

    But I'd have to be quick because, well, unless I'm really naive, I kind of think that some weapons bought on a trademe and a few backyard chemistry experiments would probably not hold out too long against the state.
    And I'd certainly rather live in a world where history was allowed to run its course than where faceless bureaucrats, bourgeois apologists, mindless cops, and politicians were deciding on my behalf what elements of history are better repressed before they occur.

    Sorry but I think you actually need to read some history. What you are saying is that you want these folks to act before the police involve themselves. I understand your logic and appreciate that sometimes pre-emptive action of the police is scary.

    But historically when groups like this actually act the result is sufferring and death of citizens.

    I agree the police need supervision when they act to prevent crimes rather than respond to them. But we want our police to prevent criminal acts.

    I actually think for the most part our police are pretty damn responsible in the use of their powers. Balancing freedoms of expression and prevention of harm to society is not easy but I believe our police try very hard to get it right. But if they get it wrong I want them to get it wrong on the side of the ledger that prevents anyone getting shot.

    History also tells us police can get out of hand - but frankly I don't think we're even remotely close to that kind of police force in New Zealand.

    cheers
    Bart

    Still waiting for actual facts to become public. untill then all this is theory.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Check out the first comment. I'm really struck by the arrogance of some of the people in the "activist" movement

    Try being involved in 'mainstream' politics. I don't think 'arrogance' even covers it, it's like you've wandered into some cult where the only thing worse than an infidel is a backsliding heretic.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • nanoplanet,

    "Try being involved in 'mainstream' politics"

    Interesting Craig, so what is your involvement with mainstream politics?

    Here • Since Apr 2007 • 15 posts Report Reply

  • rodgerd,

    Try being involved in 'mainstream' politics. I don't think 'arrogance' even covers it, it's like you've wandered into some cult where the only thing worse than an infidel is a backsliding heretic.

    Hence Mark Blumsky deciding that he doesn't want to be in Parliament after getting shit for the unforgivable crime of thinking working with marian Hobbs on issues relevant to Wellington might be a good idea.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 512 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Interesting Craig, so what is your involvement with mainstream politics?

    Well, I've been a member and supporter of the National Party for the best part of twenty years, and was a regional officeholder in the Young Nats during the 90's. I'd say - and think this is true of any political party or movement - that the overwhelming majority of members/activists are entirely decent and rational people. Doesn't mean you can't argue at the top of your lungs, but there are lines you just don't cross. But there's always going to be a few who really need to lie down in a dark room, with a wet cloth over their eyes and chill. (And to be perfectly honest, I'd have to admit there have been times when I've been there myself.)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Check out the first comment. I'm really struck by the arrogance of some of the people in the "activist" movement, but I suppose I would say that, being a bourgeois enabler and everything.

    There's a lot of nutters around activist groups. The number of meetings I've sat through while some person with some serious delusions has spoken up.

    It's the price of having open meetings and encouraging everyone to attend and contribute. Or having open internet sites covering those sorts of topics.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    According to the DomPost link, Lockett is "anti-ammunition".
    That's a very specific stance I haven't come across before!

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    The Dom Post's lead story, apparently based on police evidence provided to the defence, says Iti and his mates were working off the IRA Green Book manual.

    Until I followed the link I didn't realise that a (purported) Green Book had made the Internet.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Anorak,

    Gareth - I guess you can have all the guns you want, but without the little projectiles that make them weapons, they're not terribly dangerous...

    Auckland • Since Apr 2007 • 61 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people?

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 900 posts Report Reply

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