Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Te Qaeda and the God Squad

Russell Brown

Fri, 24 May 2013 19:15:40 +1200

I got as far as “which is a rarity from that institution which rarely criticizes unlawful or immoral acts of the NZ police force” and stopped. The IPCA has been quite forthright in criticising the Police.

I'm not particularly interested in hearing any more from a number of those originally…

Matthew Poole

Fri, 24 May 2013 14:50:18 +1200

Emily Bailey’s response to the IPCA report.

I got as far as "which is a rarity from that institution which rarely criticizes unlawful or immoral acts of the NZ police force" and stopped. The IPCA has been quite forthright in criticising the Police.

Sacha

Wed, 22 May 2013 21:28:31 +1200

Emily Bailey's response to the IPCA report.

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 22 May 2013 19:37:01 +1200

No. 8 why?
The bit that struck me today was the proposition that because the Police thought they were onto to something really 'big' and 'bad,' that justified their gung-ho actions on the day ...
So who gave them (and fed) that perception, that information doesn't seem to be forthcoming.…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 22 May 2013 13:11:40 +1200

Yeah, what's needed is a proper supervisory authority with the ability to take disciplinary action and prosecute miscreant officers, backed up by an offence of police misconduct that doesn't go away when the cop resigns.

Rob Stowell

Wed, 22 May 2013 12:33:57 +1200

So: IPCA sez police acted illegally in the ‘terror raids’ (it’s now pretty clear who was terrorised): http://www.3news.co.nz/Police-acted-unlawfully-in-terror-raids/tabid/423/articleID/298710/Default.aspx
I can’t access the report here: http://ipca.govt.nz/Site/media/2013/2013-May-22-Operation-Eight.aspx but some seem to be able to…
Big tick for the IPCA- definitely not a once over lightly rubber-stamp. But again, as with the GSCB,…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:23:59 +1300

Want to run that line, why not just abolish Parliament, the Police, the courts and pretty much anything that helps maintains a civil society under the rule of law? It would save billions every year, the downside is that you’d end up with a country no sane person would want…

Ross Mason

Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:13:16 +1300

So this must be a 4 year cume??

Rob Stowell

Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:45:10 +1300

a quarter of a million views
Take that, NZ Herald :)

Russell Brown

Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:18:22 +1300

Just noticed that this thread is getting on for a quarter of a million views. Yowza.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:50:39 +1300

It would be stupid for the Crown to try again, surely? Waste of, yet again, taxpayers money.

In this particular case, I agree with you. But as a matter of general principle I get twitchy when folks use the "waste of taxpayer's money" argument when it comes to prosecutions the…

Russell Brown

Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:40:20 +1300

New post:

http://publicaddress.net/hardnews/time-to-move-on/

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:05:36 +1300

. It will be interesting to see what the papers do in the morning,

Herald,

Seeing that this was the first reason I came to Public Address, I'm glad that the jury saw sense. It would be stupid for the Crown to try again, surely? Waste of, yet again, taxpayers…

merc

Wed, 21 Mar 2012 07:21:25 +1300

Tuhoe are the Crown's tell-tale heart.

Islander

Tue, 20 Mar 2012 23:45:50 +1300

I do hope the police don’t proceed.

There isnt the same 'fire in the breast' in the South (different people, different histories, different whakapapa & angst) but Tuhoe have the right to do whatever they think best within their own rohi-

Russell Brown

Tue, 20 Mar 2012 23:26:14 +1300

So the trial is over- we hope.

Quite. It will be interesting to see what the papers do in the morning, because in theory there could still be a another whole trial with another whole jury to prejudice. It could make commentary difficult.

I do hope the police don't proceed.

Rob Stowell

Tue, 20 Mar 2012 22:25:58 +1300

So the trial is over- we hope. I gave a small whoop when I heard the verdict, driving home in the car.
Conviction on the firearms charges was a given. I'd have probably convicted... But criminal conspiracy was always, I reckon, fishing. It's very very hard to prove, without a…

Joe Wylie

Sat, 17 Sep 2011 12:48:31 +1200

I strongly suspect there were activities there that the public would take a dim view of . . .
Somewhere in the minefield of "normal" a dim beacon still burns?

Russell Brown

Sat, 17 Sep 2011 11:12:41 +1200

Ah. This Dom Post story on the decisions is quite useful.

Russell Brown

Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:07:50 +1200

“The search warrants police used to secretly film allegedly military-style training camps on private land in the Ureweras did not give them the necessary legal authority, it can now be revealed.”

I'm still not clear on whether that was because they got their warrants under the Terrorism Suppression Act --…

Peter Graham

Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:05:44 +1200

My guess is that the cops crossed some (still secret) line in their evidence gathering – there was a lot of cellphone and texting intercepts going on here, maybe someone didn’t get the required warrants? will there be repercussions

Well guessed

"The search warrants police used to secretly film allegedly…

Rob Stowell

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:53:55 +1200

That stings. And child poverty: I'm feeling ashamed.

Deborah

Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:17:05 +1200

A friend of mine put this comment on Facebook:

Miss half a game of rugby because a train breaks down: personal apology from Prime Minister John Key and compensation up for discussion.

Have your doors kicked in, automatic rifles pointed at your kids, and four years of your life stolen…

Just thinking

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 17:01:09 +1200

The Armoury is an adaptive use of a historic building that may otherwise have had a hard time being used.
I'll run it past the NZ Historic Places Trust, or not.

Stephen Judd

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 16:59:21 +1200

I am irresistably reminded of this (textually NSFW) Onion classic.

BenWilson

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 14:26:55 +1200

My wife sometimes expreses concern at the bruises I acquire at training. I usually tell her that nothing could be more harmlessly hetrosexual than rolling around on the floor grappling with other sweaty muscular men.

Yes, hard to think of anything more masculine than seizing a young man, and pinning…

Sacha

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 14:24:02 +1200

Police issue media release headlined "No apology for Operation Eight prosecutions". (also no word on their decoding of tattoos).

Emma Hart

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 14:03:45 +1200

Oi, can’t you just stick to ‘Hart’s Rule’-ing your own threads?

Okay, fine, I found a SFW version. It also enables the decoding of my most recent tattoo.

Carry on, I'll stop thread-jacking now.

Rich Lock

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:53:39 +1200

yuh-huh.

Oi, can't you just stick to 'Hart's Rule'-ing your own threads?

I inadvertently found out about the bandana code the hard way (fnar!) back in the 1980's as a callow youth who was rather dorkily try to look like a member of a boy band or something.

My dad…

Emma Hart

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:43:50 +1200

And not at the armory in San Francisco? NSFW! By a factor of N! I just typed the link, i didn’t click it. Be warned!

Heh. This is not how I thought kink.com was going to get linked here.

As an aside: a leather pride flag? One learns something new…

Rich Lock

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:25:20 +1200

Heh. I'm not clicking on that link , but I assume it's this?

As an…

Paul Campbell

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:16:34 +1200

yes thunderflashes are oversized fireworks (might damage a hand), while powergel an explosive (blow up a car, or a stump on your farm) – but in ignorant hands the powergel is probably much safer (can't set it off without a detonator while the TFs are probably black powder and can…

Rich Lock

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:10:58 +1200

The difference between thunderflashes and powergel is quite wide, though, no?

Wide enough for one to concern me only a little, and the other quite a bit.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:09:25 +1200

trained for those sort of scenarios at the armoury in Birkenhead

And not at the armory in San Francisco? NSFW! By a factor of N! I just typed the link, i didn’t click it. Be warned!

Paul Campbell

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:06:15 +1200

that's what the aforementioned thunderflashes are for – fake, reasonably safe, standins for explosives for training – I remember using them as part of "barracks" (compulsory military training in high school) in the early 70s

DCBCauchi

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 12:53:14 +1200

I know several people, including police, military and security guys, who have (informally) trained for those sort of scenarios at the armoury in Birkenhead.

Sounds exactly like it. Mostly rozzers. I've no idea whether they do use explosives, but, as I said, it wouldn't surprise or concern me. There are…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 12:26:43 +1200

AFAIK if you want to have explosives nowadays you need an approved handler permit from ERMA and to be a fit-and-proper person?

Rich Lock

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:52:42 +1200

I have a friend who is into these kind of mock battle games, kind of like a real-world computer game shoot-em-up. Like paintball, but I don't think they use paintballs, at least judging from the marks he's shown me. He's invested a lot of time and money into it, as…

DCBCauchi

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:36:11 +1200

Recognise anyone here?

Ha ha. The very thing I asked.

Paul Campbell

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:33:27 +1200

two military flares, a smoke grenade, a thunderflash explosive, part of an anti-personnel mine, eight sticks of powergel explosive, a grenade launcher, and two military-style semi-automatic firearms.
That sounds perfectly harmless to me. T

I guess it depends – it sounds like a scary bunch of things but .....

Flares,…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:31:52 +1200

I have no real objection if neo-nazis want to play paintball with real live ammo and high explosives, providing they do it in a suitably remote area, and leave the wounded to rot rather than troubling the medical system.

Just thinking

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:23:28 +1200

And I'd rather they err on the side of caution when it's about things that can kill people. Car Collector would be the most deadly, surely.

I have a friend who is into these kind of mock battle games, kind of like a real-world computer game shoot-em-up. Like paintball -…

DCBCauchi

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:20:11 +1200

Interesting.

That was the great thing about our civilisation. Millions of people with large amounts of disposable income and an advanced industrial society in which to spend it.

DCBCauchi

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:17:17 +1200

Don't get me wrong. I freaked out when he first pulled out these guns and battle armour he'd bought. It's pretty weird. Not scary but.

Sacha

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:16:36 +1200

Interesting.

DCBCauchi

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:15:25 +1200

I’ve never heard of LARPers using explosives. Expensive swords and armour, yes.

But this isn't swords and armour stuff. It's guns and explosives stuff. They spend a lot of time and money making it as realistic as possible. Whole sets and everything.

Sacha

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:12:45 +1200

I have a friend who is into these kind of mock battle games

I've never heard of LARPers using explosives. Expensive swords and armour, yes.

DCBCauchi

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:08:45 +1200

I understand uniforms and even old weapons, but do they usually collect explosives as well?

I have a friend who is into these kind of mock battle games, kind of like a real-world computer game shoot-em-up. Like paintball, but I don't think they use paintballs, at least judging from the…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:07:25 +1200

The whole thing now seems to come across as some kind of SLAPP.

Sacha

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:52:50 +1200

imagine the trick would be knowing the difference

And I'd rather they err on the side of caution when it's about things that can kill people.

Sacha

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:52:02 +1200

military paraphernalia collector

I understand uniforms and even old weapons, but do they usually collect explosives as well?

DCBCauchi

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:51:58 +1200

I imagine the trick would be knowing the difference.

Quite. You wouldn't think it'd be that hard.

Russell Brown

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:50:17 +1200

I imagine tins of soup would be extremely nervous about people wielding can openers with intent but not about can opener collectors. Just as I’d be extremely nervous about David Gray but not about a military paraphernalia collector per se.

I imagine the trick would be knowing the difference.

DCBCauchi

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:46:37 +1200

I am no more nervous of this guy than I would be of a can opener collector if I were a tin of soup.

That’s an impenetrable metaphor …

Is it?

I imagine tins of soup would be extremely nervous about people wielding can openers with intent but not about…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:35:46 +1200

I wonder does someone (some foreign entity) have a fibre splitter in our main fibre trunks somewhere?
Someone like Cisco perhaps?
They seem to be keen on appeasing governments...

Russell Brown

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:05:24 +1200

This guy, whose offending (selling guns to (other) criminals) must have been at the very top end of the scale, got 21 months.

Hmmm ...

And this police employee got a discharge without conviction for having illegal machine guns hidden in his house.

He will also lose his job, appropriately.

Russell Brown

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:01:51 +1200

That sounds perfectly harmless to me. The collecting impulse is deeply strange. All sorts of people collect all sorts of things, out of a fascinated interest in the things themselves. For the things themselves, not to use them on some fantasy rampage.

Except for the odd person who collects all…

DCBCauchi

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 09:50:30 +1200

two military flares, a smoke grenade, a thunderflash explosive, part of an anti-personnel mine, eight sticks of powergel explosive, a grenade launcher, and two military-style semi-automatic firearms.

I presume the court will be told why, but in the meantime that sure doesn’t sound too harmless from here, no matter how…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 08:48:07 +1200

The courts don't seem to treat firearms offences all that seriously though, as long as the perpetrator is a white male without left-wing links.

This guy, whose offending (selling guns to (other) criminals) must have been at the very top end of the scale, got 21 months.

And [[http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5361060/Mannequin-machinegun-collector-discharged|this police…

Sacha

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 08:06:46 +1200

the police cracked down on activists using the pretext of suppression of terrorism and that is what I find disturbing.

That sucks, sure.

Kracklite

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 00:05:30 +1200

I presume the court will be told why, but in the meantime that sure doesn’t sound too harmless from here, no matter how friendly the guy is.

That does disturb me, but using that as a pretext to suppress political dissent by people who do not use such things also…

Kracklite

Wed, 07 Sep 2011 00:03:13 +1200

Actually, yes, I agree that people can be dragged into, indulge in radical movements due to an excess of testosterone or simple vileness, but there have been a lot of the activist community who were attacked because they were simply activists. "Activist" and "terrorist" are two different categories and as…

Sacha

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 23:43:37 +1200

Like this guy

Who, the article reports, had this lot:

two military flares, a smoke grenade, a thunderflash explosive, part of an anti-personnel mine, eight sticks of powergel explosive, a grenade launcher, and two military-style semi-automatic firearms.

I presume the court will be told why, but in the meantime that…

Just thinking

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 23:27:39 +1200

That is just too charitable by far IMO.

Some people held firearms without a licence, some were fairly dealt with, others weren't by millions of dollars.

Like this guy:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/462418/Musician-on-firearms-charges-loses-suppression-battle

I've not met Bernard or Tama but know people who count each as a friend.

Kracklite

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 22:45:41 +1200

My view remains that there were things going on that warranted the attention of the police, even if was mostly idiocy. Sadly, they managed to be bigger idiots than the “terrorists” were.

I strongly suspect that if the original police affidavit isn’t released after the trials, it will be leaked…

Just thinking

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 19:40:04 +1200

Howard Broad has left the building, got his gong and had more shit on others than an Animal Farm to get that far.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Broad

A fool and his charges aren't soon parted.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 14:43:16 +1200

A cynic would speculate that it would be a bad look to have these trials during the RWC.
But, I thought RWC stood for Ruatoria War Crimes...

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 14:41:15 +1200

There are a few alternatives.

The US has satellites that can intercept microwave spillage from fixed links between cell sites. The on-air encryption used by GSM has been cracked allowing eavesdropping on voice/text/data.

And I'm not that convinced that it wouldn't be possible for GCSB to install a "lawful access"…

Russell Brown

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 14:40:14 +1200

They obtained the warrants under the Terrorism Suppression Act, and then…

Sacha

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 14:35:35 +1200

Echelon is probably sufficient to spy on locals, and our privacy act is trumped by security agencies. I recall mention of the NSA installing their gear into the US ISPs within days after 9/11.

Andre Alessi

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 14:32:41 +1200

I wonder does someone (some foreign entity) have a fibre splitter in our main fibre trunks somewhere?

It might still be an effective monopoly here, but it's an open enough network that it is vanishingly unlikely for someone to be able to hide that kind of equipment on the network.…

Sacha

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 14:19:42 +1200

Might force some attention on policy areas that either big party wants to avoid.

Sacha

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 14:19:10 +1200

I can't see anyone in rugby circles being hurt, can you?

Stephen Judd

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 14:17:50 +1200

during the election lead-up, you mean

Wasn't Labour was in government during the relevant period? I don't really see how the Nats would be hurt by the fallout.

Sacha

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 14:09:57 +1200

during the RWC

during the election lead-up, you mean

Stephen Judd

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 13:46:32 +1200

Four years is hell of a long time to have your life in stasis, unable to get a proper job or to travel or to have any number of other freedoms. Justice delayed, justice denied, and all that.

It would not be practical for any such trials to proceed prior…

Paul Campbell

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 13:15:29 +1200

That would make sense – maybe to keep the chain of evidence they were being required to release who gave them the original information.

I wonder does someone (some foreign entity) have a fibre splitter in our main fibre trunks somewhere? – chances all the country's cell (and landline long…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 13:03:55 +1200

There are no laws AFAIK that allow warrantless wiretaps.

However what I'd suspect them of doing is obtaining initial leads via (illegal) warrantless interception, possibly via another UKUSA state, and then getting a warrant for further activity.

merc

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 13:01:14 +1200

The Solicitor-General subsequently ruled out charges under the Terrorism Suppression Act – saying the law was "almost impossible to apply in a coherent manner"
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10749743

Law makers, FAIL

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:57:38 +1200

The Clown Law Office...
today’s withdrawal of most charges.
NZ Police seem to have cornered the market in clowning around in public – their back-pedalling is becoming very accomplished in recent times...

Paul Campbell

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:55:06 +1200

(BTW I have no inside knowledge of the case, I'm simply making the sort of speculation that a secret court ruling invites in an open democratic country)

Paul Campbell

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:44:40 +1200

exactly – looks like they will be releasing it all eventually

My guess is that the cops crossed some (still secret) line in their evidence gathering – there was a lot of cellphone and texting intercepts going on here, maybe someone didn't get the required warrants? will there be repercussions…

Sacha

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:36:35 +1200

Crown Solicitor's statement about today's withdrawal of most charges.

Paul Campbell

Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:25:44 +1200

Anyone want to explain what just happened here – secret Supreme Court rulings?

Michael Fitzgerald

Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:45:24 +1300

From page 6

Posted at 3:32PM on 16 Oct 07. Report. Permalink.

I've got $10 on Mintos quote coming true – no terrorism charges.

Mr Minto said the police have put an "exit strategy" in place and the terrorism charges will not see the light of day.

As it's Cup…

Michael Fitzgerald

Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:16:15 +1300

Gold Brian pure gold

Brian Murphy

Wed, 07 Nov 2007 19:05:26 +1300

That from the Herald here

I did not see the TV news bulletin so have no opinion about it, or its credibility.

But someone part of a group claiming to represent a half-dozen 109-116 year olds with £1000 and £500,000 notes that they wish to exchange with the Bank…

Brian Murphy

Wed, 07 Nov 2007 18:39:13 +1300

Meanwhile it would seem that one of the fantasists behind the 75billion scam on the bank of england is also

__Archer is no a stranger to controversy and appeared in a recent television news bulletin as one of the hunters who had become suspicious about apparent para- military activity by…

Michael Fitzgerald

Wed, 07 Nov 2007 16:48:48 +1300

Indy Media are calling for Cop-Watch – photos etc online of cops.
Too much hard word for me & if we want to stop the cops from doing it can't really drop to their level.
I do like the idea of many eyes in the street though with or without vids.…

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 07 Nov 2007 16:26:42 +1300

Moana Jackson, who is Ngati Kahungunu, has resigned his position as a Patron at the Royal New Zealand Police College in protest at the abuse of the human rights of innocent bystanders during the police operation in Tuhoe on October 15th and succeeding days.

Margaret B

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:40:42 +1300

I really question the "right" anyone has to own one of these – fun as they might be.

Well, I question the need for anyone who isn't in the business of killing people to own a gun that is clearly just for killing people (ie not suitable for hunting, like…

kmont

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:14:59 +1300

Fair enough. Richards should just be thankful he's not my partner, other wise he'd be in his very own am-dram production of the Lysistrata. :)

LOL

Michael Fitzgerald

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:53:54 +1300

I've linked to here before but a tank is a weapon in itself (without the gun)
http://www.tanksforeverything.co.nz/gallery.php

Here are many normal people getting a thrill out of playing solider for a day.
Tanks in the states have been stolen and used to cause great damage (ended nasty for a few…

Russell Brown

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:15:34 +1300

Fair enough. Richards should just be thankful he's not my partner, other wise he'd be in his very own am-dram production of the Lysistrata. :)

Heh. I'm scared just thinking about it ...

Finn Higgins

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:11:39 +1300

Michael, your posts could be described as many things but "objective" is certainly not one of them. I wouldn't get into that argument were I you.

Michael Fitzgerald

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:10:26 +1300

or objectivity it would seem

Russell Brown

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:06:33 +1300

Consistency Russell.
You can't rubbish my question which leads to the OTT actions of Len and latter state it as fact without losing credibility.

Sorry Michael, I don't understand your point.

Michael Fitzgerald

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:58:58 +1300

Consistency Russell.
You can't rubbish my question which leads to the OTT actions of Len and latter state it as fact without losing credibility.

Russell Brown

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:49:33 +1300

Bollocks. TV3's vision came from an indymedia guy with a handicam. Their shooters actually missed it.

Ah. Thanks for that. Still, I presume the stuff in their extended clip came from their own cameras?

What One needs to do is follow 3's example and start treating its website as a…

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:44:28 +1300

He got upset because his partner didn't get a hearing, got into a stupid screaming match and then did something stupid and dangerous.

Fair enough. Richards should just be thankful he's not my partner, other wise he'd be in his very own am-dram production of the Lysistrata. :)

johnno

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:36:15 +1300

Ah. So video referees have wider application than just sport...
Heh. I was thinking : yet again TV3 gets the best pictures ...

Bollocks. TV3's vision came from an indymedia guy with a handicam. Their shooters actually missed it. The TVNZ track was much more revealing, and got some great…

Russell Brown

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:23:39 +1300

And SFW? Don't know why this needs repeating but OVENS WALKED AWAY – RICHARDS WENT AND MADE AN ALREADY HEATED SITUATION WORSE.

He did, but I thought I'd said as much. I was addressing Michael's dark mutterings about an "interesting insite" into Richards' actions wrt Ovens, which seemed completely obvious…

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:04:47 +1300

Well, duh. What happened to Ovens quite obviously is what made Richards lose his temper. She was given a megaphone by an organiser but never got to speak because the dimwit tendency among the protesters wouldn't stop chanting "Lies! Lies! Lies!"

And SFW? Don't know why this needs repeating but…

Russell Brown

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 07:46:09 +1300

So why did you include that in you opening of your new thread?

Um, because it's a fact. You've mentioned it in several posts as if it's some kind of secret.

That peoples relations do play a part in their actions – Clarks defense for Mallards attack, an interesting insite…

linger

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 00:40:17 +1300

You know, I can't quite see how his acting like a male appendage, and not entirely coincidentally helping the protesters to wipe the actual issues at stake off the media, helped to uphold Jill's honour in any way.

Certainly not in any way that would cut any ice with HC!

InternationalObserver

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 00:30:48 +1300

Len was in a bad place to be productive & did Helen Clark mention he & Jill are in a relationship?
WTF would that have to do with it?

Er, because he was defending a ladies honour, which therefore qualifies him for some special 'understanding'??

I predict he'll get diversion.

Michael Fitzgerald

Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:26:15 +1300

Len was in a bad place to be productive & did Helen Clark mention he & Jill are in a relationship?

RB – WTF would that have to do with it?

So why did you include that in you opening of your new thread?
That peoples relations do play a part in…

Russell Brown

Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:17:23 +1300

Ah. So video referees have wider application than just sport...

Heh. I was thinking : yet again TV3 gets the best pictures ...

Stephen Judd

Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:15:58 +1300

Ah. So video referees have wider application than just sport...

Russell Brown

Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:15:37 +1300

Len was in a bad place to be productive & did Helen Clark mention he & Jill are in a relationship?

WTF would that have to do with it?

Past experience in CTU is no predictor of future actions – Reptilian Shapeshifters?

The "past" in this case being last week, when the…

Russell Brown

Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:13:11 +1300

Letting violence take place under your nose and allowing the perpetrator to wander off? Bad Policing.

Probably. But when you look at the One News video, taken from the police vantage point, you have to wonder if they fully grasped what had happened. The fact that they agreed to investigate…

Michael Fitzgerald

Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:00:02 +1300

"The guy who advanced on Richards jabbing his finger needed to calm down a bit, but what Richards did was inexcusable."

Len was in the crowd pumping out the megaphone message in the face of the crowd. Never a fun experience – so was the guy defending himself from the…

Stephen Judd

Sun, 04 Nov 2007 10:13:09 +1300

For sure, Russell.

Spitting at people is (apart from being rude and unhygienic) utterly counter-productive, and it only makes sense as a manifestation of enmity. It is Bad Protesting. Gracefully ignoring it is Good Policing.

Letting violence take place under your nose and allowing the perpetrator to wander off? Bad…

Russell Brown

Sun, 04 Nov 2007 08:39:54 +1300

I don't understand whose fault it is, and I wouldn't like to speculate, but it's really clear that the police and a certain subset of activists regard each other as enemies. That's what's behind today's bizarre behaviour,

Actually, the police seemed to exercise great restraint. The kid who spat in…

Russell Brown

Sun, 04 Nov 2007 08:28:18 +1300

SFWU did a dodgey deal a year or so back (defending the bloody bizzar) & Ovens is on Indey media as a "class traitor" (I don't buy into that – the lady has no class at all).

If you could get off Channel Angry for a moment (or even read your…

Michael Fitzgerald

Sun, 04 Nov 2007 01:30:36 +1300

Len Richards quoting Jill Ovens 28Jul06

The workplace culture in the Northern Region was described as “hostile, dysfunctional, divisive, chaotic, political, intimidating and unprofessional.”

http://indymedia.org.nz/newswire/display/51409/index.php

Michael Fitzgerald

Sun, 04 Nov 2007 01:19:04 +1300

SFWU did a dodgey deal a year or so back (defending the bloody bizzar) & Ovens is on Indey media as a "class traitor" (I don't buy into that – the lady has no class at all).
But to try and address a crowd protesting your party while wearing the colours…

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 03 Nov 2007 21:37:12 +1300

They should terminate Richards' membership. It'd be good riddance.

The sad thing is that if he is going to be expelled from the party, I'm cynical enough to suspect that it's not going to be for what he did – but that he's upstaged the Prime Minister's tax cut pledge…

Russell Brown

Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:53:12 +1300

This is sort of grimly funny. It's what happens when reporters report things they didn't see:

TVNZ Report 1:

The violence erupted when Labour Party member Len Richards went into the crowd and allegedly hit a protestor following a struggle with the megaphone he was using.

TVNZ Report 2:

Richards…

Russell Brown

Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:31:47 +1300

Posted on the Moron thread but will Len be promoted to Party Prez?

I doubt it, given that until last year, he was co-leader of the Alliance. He's very left-wing.

Further irony: last week he had this statement published:

The first question that arises is; did the police act judiciously…

Stephen Judd

Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:28:41 +1300

I don't understand whose fault it is, and I wouldn't like to speculate, but it's really clear that the police and a certain subset of activists regard each other as enemies. That's what's behind today's bizarre behaviour, and I wouldn't be surprised if it explains a few other things as…

Michael Fitzgerald

Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:04:44 +1300

Posted on the Moron thread but will Len be promoted to Party Prez?
& who is Gill – the face that launched a flying megaphone?

reece palmer

Sat, 03 Nov 2007 18:21:19 +1300

Not to mention that the three arrested were later released without charge. As well, the north shore police commander stating that they were "protecting the right to freedom of speech" by arresting protestors.

reece palmer

Sat, 03 Nov 2007 18:19:24 +1300

Yep saw it too, bald faced liar he was. Provided the trigger point for the ensuing violence.

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 03 Nov 2007 18:12:09 +1300

Meanwhile, anyone catch the footage on Three of a Labour conference delegate bringing the biff to a peaceful protest – and the Police doing absolutely NOTHING – then flat out lying about it when quizzed by a reporter?

Couldn't. Make. It. Up.

kmont

Sat, 03 Nov 2007 09:52:14 +1300

Absolutely what Stephen said.

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 03 Nov 2007 01:43:54 +1300

... I bet I could find you something more inflammatory from Michael Laws every Sunday.

Well, yes... you know, like Messers Shipton, Scholum and Rickards being on trial earlier this year for the kind of 'sensual excesses' we'd all cop to if we weren't so blinded by PC prudery. But…

Michael Fitzgerald

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 23:17:45 +1300

Dr Taonui is a rising star.

As violence is a learnt behaviour and most of the kiddies stories I grew up on had nasty ends for little kids or pretty scary possible threats to kids. Hansel & Gretal, Little Red Riding Hood, The Pide Piper. Yeah European stories & attitudes to kids…

Stephen Judd

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 21:01:58 +1300

APW: well, reasonable people can differ. I personally think your views of acceptable discourse are a bit narrow.

The Haywood comparison? Gimme a break. Taonui is on his own time, doing his own thing, just like Laws isn't speaking for the people of Wanganui. And he's writing an opinion column…

Andrew Paul Wood

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:59:46 +1300

I'm not calling him a radical, I am calling him to task (and not for the first time) for very bizzare statements given in the national media without much, if any, context – and him not being held accountable despite being the head of a major department at a major…

kmont

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:51:07 +1300

I just got a whole post deleted : (

I agree Andrew that none of us have any facts but it seems to me that all Rawiri Taonui is doing is suggesting alternative explainations to the "Military Style Training Camps!" "Molotov Cocktails!" headlines.

... I bet I could find you…

Andrew Paul Wood

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:47:38 +1300

And I reiterate, there is nothing ammusing about anyone being in possession of Molotov cocktails, regardless of who or what they are.

Stephen Judd

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:41:16 +1300

APW: I had no idea he was an SST columnist. I don't read it regularly, except for the business section when my partner buys. Funnily enough that's because the regular columnists annoy the hell out of me...

But if it comes to that (I'm assuming this is the passage you…

Andrew Paul Wood

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:25:09 +1300

And if I started running around calling all Maori child-murdering dole-bludging terrorists, I hope someone would be kind enough to point out to me I was talking out of my arse.

Andrew Paul Wood

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:21:20 +1300

I agree that Universities should be places for intense and vigourous debate and that many matters are debatable, but if you want some examples, by all means. I findthis statement supremely obnoxious. There is nothing funny about molotov cocktails, and nothing light hearted about any violence. I doubt he has…

kmont

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:13:03 +1300

Universities should be places for intense and vigourous debate. Critic and conscience and all that. Of course academia is primarily a matter of facts and objectivity, but many matters are debatable.
If you have a problem with his point of view go into detail, don't just make snide comments about…

Andrew Paul Wood

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:48:32 +1300

Merc – He's bigger than I am and his leather jacket intimidates me.

Stephen – I defy you to say that after reading 3 or 4 of the man's Sunday Star Times column.

Russell – this is hardly new for the respected head of department. Therein lies the affront I…

Russell Brown

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:40:21 +1300

Well ... I don't know if I'd go so far as "talking out his arse", but I did think this was quite a bold statement to make without really having any facts:

"This is about scaring the community to enhance state power and restore a police force beset by scandals"

merc

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:21:55 +1300

Drivell alert.
Yes and why don't you ask him that yourself, personally Mr Wood?

Stephen Judd

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:18:25 +1300

Yes, it's just you.

Andrew Paul Wood

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:01:10 +1300

Is it just me, or does Dr Rawiri Taonui talk out his arse a lot for a respected academic?

Andrew Paul Wood

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:51:57 +1300

The latest on the Beeb

3410

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 12:59:37 +1300

So, any idea why "the Urewera 17" is now "the Urewera 16"?

Michael Fitzgerald

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 11:52:46 +1300

This is mercenary

MMB(trademark) ARABIAN Arab tactical Scarf Shemagh BALACLAVA in OD Olive Drab HOT!!

EXPORTED PRODUCT TO THE MIDDLE EAST

TODAY'S HOTTEST STYLE!!

HARD TO FIND!

BRAND NEW

Description :
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* One size fits all
* Give face/neck/ears/head protection
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Kyle Matthews

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 11:25:51 +1300

It's all over the papers there, but I thought this Telegraph story provided one of the better accounts of how the police lost the plot.

I really wanted that last paragraph expanded – there's a whole other half to the story as to why they fired I'm sure, which it…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:55:16 +1300

It's all over the papers there, but I thought this Telegraph story provided one of the better accounts of how the police lost the plot.

And not even Greg O'Connor could slag off the __Torygraph as being full of wet hoodie-hugging, man-hating anti-cop pinkos. :) Sorry for sounding like a…

Russell Brown

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:30:41 +1300

As we've followed their lead I fully expect it to end the same way.

It's all over the papers there, but I thought this Telegraph story provided one of the better accounts of how the police lost the plot.

Michael Fitzgerald

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:29:26 +1300

RNZ 9-noon Police Ass no2 just stated the "IRA Handbook" is an old document with no modern tactics. So its all a media beat up?

Michael Fitzgerald

Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:06:07 +1300

As we've followed their lead I fully expect it to end the same wway.

London police guilty over shooting
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6638A9E9-6A59-4927-8312-D22D0BCFDA19.htm

merc

Thu, 01 Nov 2007 16:12:09 +1300

Viva Zapata!

Danyl Mclauchlan

Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:16:25 +1300

Truly. Barking. Mad.

Speaking of which, all of Trevor Loudens' Christmas's seem to have come at once. Trev is one of those Libertarians who thinks anyone who disagrees with his progressive notions of liberty and freedom should be arrested and imprisoned. I believe he's also Vice-President of ACT.

Trevor…

BenWilson

Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:02:40 +1300

On a non-reptilian shapeshifter note, I can't help noticing that some of the PA bloggers have been a bit quiet of late. Come back cuzzies! Are they in hibernation or something?

Look out the window! Some of them must be getting their pasty-white/light brown/light yellow arses a bit of sun.…

Andrew Paul Wood

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:10:31 +1300

Ok, with all that extra information I considerably more concerned about what the police are up to – but I put that down more to teething problems with new legislation during an unprecidented situation.
And to a certain extent I feel Helen was entitled (if misguided) to say what she…

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:02:34 +1300

I must stay away from PAS for a time as penance.

We'll time you. I've got 50 cents you won't last till tea time.

kmont

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:03:40 +1300

Oh my god! Where is the edit function!
The shame.
I must stay away from PAS for a time as penance.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:02:42 +1300

I see... merchandising! A stylish range of MOK-RAGE apparel, homeware and office accessories! stuffed toys! Anime and manga! Oooh...

Stephen Judd

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:57:49 +1300

That's Tze.

You'd better hope she doesn't see that or evil beams of focussed Mok-rage will probably bore the earth and erupt out your monitor.

Sonic

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:55:49 +1300

A bit late on Omar, but to those of us who know him the idea of him being a "terrorist" is laughable.

Lets hope he does not spend two years on remand before everyone else agrees.

kmont

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:53:19 +1300

On a non-reptilian shapeshifter note, I can't help noticing that some of the PA bloggers have been a bit quiet of late. Come back cuzzies! Are they in hibernation or something?

Too true. Maybe we need to show some love activist style.

"Whatda we want? Tsu Ming
When do we…

Robyn Gallagher

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:52:51 +1300

Meanwhile, from this blog post on the stoush, an amazing Indymedia link.
Truly. Barking. Mad.

In the first sentence of the blog post, the Illuminati is mentioned, which reminds me of this comment I saw over at the Herald's "Your Views" on the subject of the new trianglular Auckland City Council…

Richard Bol

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:46:23 +1300

David Icke fans sure are hilarious. My favourite bit is on the indymedia post is where the anonymous arch-nemesis of masonic illumaniti reptilian shapeshifters tells his/her opponent to look past Icke's crazy ideas and concentrate on the good ones.

On a non-reptilian shapeshifter note, I can't help noticing that some…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:36:28 +1300

Truly. Barking. Mad.

And the really depressing thing is that it's only second nuttiest statement I've read today after hearing Greg O'Connor's truly demented keynote speech at the Police Association conference this morning.

Apparently Police are 'too receptive to criticism', and its putting lives and Western Civ itself at mortal…

Che Tibby

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:15:54 +1300

wow. a non-tze ming thread that just won't quit...

Truly. Barking. Mad.

it was looking for an alternative media source that wasn't completely freaking ridiculous that got me into reading blogs.

the one where the indymedia people suggested the indonesian tsunami was caused by a rogue nuclear weapon was all…

InternationalObserver

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:15:21 +1300

So Helen is omnipotent – Great.

Maybe she should cut back on the Viagra?

(aw c'mon, don't hate me – that joke wrote itself!)

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:07:31 +1300

Meanwhile, from this blog post on the stoush, an amazing Indymedia link.
Truly. Barking. Mad.

If the person wasn't arguing so hard you'd think they were just drunk and having some fun.

Apparently they're just not sane enough to be allowed on the internet.

Russell Brown

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:29:12 +1300

I found Minto's accusations against Trotter over Iraq a bit bizarre, and I haven't been able to find anything Trotter wrote backing Blair's sign-up to the war.

A few months before the invasion he certainly didn't seem to be on board with the project.

Meanwhile, from [[http://lefthandpalm.blogspot.com/2007/10/minto-vs-trotter.html|this blog post on…

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:12:08 +1300

So here was a person arrested on gun charges but then detained on evidence inadmissible under our gun laws but admissible for denying bail for charges under the gun laws. Confused? I was.

That's really interesting. The fact that it's written by Minto has me less all over it than…

Stephen Judd

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:39:12 +1300

I'm amazed Clark didn't just stick with the standard "leave the police to do their jobs" line that all politicians should have written on a reference sheet for this kind of occasion.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:16:10 +1300

And just to be even handed, I also think it wasn't that smart of John Key to blurt that he'd apparently received a briefing from the SIS. "Technically" he didn't say anything wrong, but it was unhelpful to set all the conspiracy theorists a-twitter.

I suspect, someone is giving Key…

Michael Fitzgerald

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:58:21 +1300

Thanks for clarifying that Neil.
So Helen is omnipotent – Great.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:56:12 +1300

technically I agree.

No 'technically' about it, in my view. Dumb thing to say, full stop. Just as there's not excuse for Mallard hitting people – and that's where you stop talking.

But every moron in the Green and Maori parties as well as various self important left wing activists…

Neil Morrison

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:47:53 +1300

And the latest piece of idiocy from Minto –

Letter from John Minto to Chris Trotter

What the f*ck happened to the activist left.

Neil Morrison

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:33:39 +1300

She went a bit further than that, and IMO unwisely so...

technically I agree. But every moron in the Green and Maori parties as well as various self important left wing activists have spouted a lot of very stupid and inflammatory BS on this issue so I’m not about to…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:33:24 +1300

Another nice thing abut PAS is the general lack of self-regarding web-punditry.
If you feel the need to featherbed that kind of thing it's not my problem. Again, should you feel that bomber needs to be cut some slack due to his current troubles, fine. It has next to nothing…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:49:18 +1300

It's pretty much all about Bomber, and has bugger all to do with the stuff us mortals are largely in the dark about.

Come on, Joe – one of the nice things about PAS is that (at least most of the time) we genuinely try to engage with each other,…

Michael Fitzgerald

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:15:44 +1300

Good old RNZ & Mary Wilson have an audio of Aunty Helen backing her statement last night.

Keith Locke recons shes prejudiced the case due to her inside knowledge – the SIS/Police briefings.

18:45hrs
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:05:17 +1300

and one must also assume that as PM Helen has carte blanche to release certain information as she see's fit.

She certainly does not – no Prime Minister does. And that's a pretty smart convention when the Prime Minister is privy to an extraordinary range of sensitive information, by virtue…

Joe Wylie

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:20:22 +1300

It's a refrain Bomber's been playing ever since this story broke – 'trust me, thanks to my down-with-the-activists cred I have inside information which I'm not at liberty to reveal' – all the while invoking the bogeyman of talkback/Leighton/Laws – effectively, the kind of people that Bomber is energetically fast-tracking…

Stephen Judd

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:15:05 +1300

Aye.

But: "I’ve spoken to a lot of people who have seen what the Police have in terms of allegations."

Who has seen what they have in terms of evidence? The only report that I know is that one from John Minto I just quoted. (Spotted by the ever-vigilant Idiot/Savant…

Russell Brown

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:08:21 +1300

OTOH, new from Bomber:

I’ve spoken to a lot of people who have seen what the Police have in terms of allegations and everything I hear back suggests it is serious, the manner in which blind support has been whipped up for the Urewera 17 I believe may end up…

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:07:29 +1300

in fairness she was responding to the Maori Party's attacks which included a deliberate misrepresentation of how the relationship between the govt and police works. I'm quite happy she took them to task over it.

In fairness, Neil, Clark could have made the point by simply saying again "No Minister…

Russell Brown

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:00:40 +1300

Stephen:

Hadn't seen that till now. Far freakin' out.

One always wants to wait to hear what's said in court and, assuming that's an accurate depiction of proceedings, I'm now able to start forming a view. So far, it isn't good.

Stephen Judd

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:44:31 +1300

Andrew:

Re Rongomai Bailey:
__
The police opposed bail and were required to indicate the strength of evidence against him. It was a somewhat bizarre legal discussion which followed. It transpired the police had no admissible evidence to justify laying the arms charges. In fact, they had no direct evidence…

Michael Fitzgerald

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:32:13 +1300

Andrew correct me if I'm wrong, but do you believe in the omnipotent wisdom of the Police or just Helen?
With such powers surely trials are redundant and sentences must be carried out forthwith.

Andrew Paul Wood

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:40:54 +1300

"who at the very least have illicitly used firearms, constructed molotov cocktails and trained themselves in how to use napalm, should not be charged"

It matches with what the media have been reporting from what little the Police have released, and I would assume as PM she would have access…

Michael Fitzgerald

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:21:59 +1300

Tuhoe forests would also tie in the smelly tree hugging hippies and the economic purpose for the invasion.

Conspiracy Theory complete – now is there any proof to it?

Michael Fitzgerald

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:58:04 +1300

Last nights news on Maori TV has a bit about a ruckus over rights to forest in Tuhoe country.

It would have total historical significance if the Cullen Fund/Police Retirement Fund/Todd Corp (a tie to Collins)/etc have or will buy the rights to that forest in the near future.

29Oct07…

Michael Fitzgerald

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:47:17 +1300

Neil she crossed the line here-

"who at the very least have illicitly used firearms, constructed molotov cocktails and trained themselves in how to use napalm, should not be charged"

The difference being Mallard admitted it – no-one sure as hell has admitted this and she is stating it as…

Neil Morrison

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:42:24 +1300

Clark's buggered her admirable STFU record

in fairness she was responding to the Maori Party's attacks which included a deliberate misrepresentation of how the relationship between the govt and police works. I'm quite happy she took them to task over it.

Russell Brown

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:36:40 +1300

So you're on board with Helens driving this circus I take it?

No, it just struck me that your reflexive response on the matter passing to our senior non-political law official was to question his credibility. Unfairly, in my view.

Clark's buggered her admirable STFU record, especially in broaching the…

Michael Fitzgerald

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:20:18 +1300

Russell don't tell me he's on the Labour Party list as well :p

At first glance Dr Wayne Mapp CV is impressive too.
http://www.national.org.nz/Bio.aspx?Id=31

So you're on board with Helens driving this circus I take it?

You cropped the last two paragraphs, I only state this because that was my…

stephen clover

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:16:55 +1300

Though it was I that Russell quoted in his Hard News: Moron y Moron piece ("either vaguely threatening or threateningly vague"), I actually have softened my opinion on Tamati Kruger in the Sunday interview.

For a start, he was probably just trying to answer as well as he could, in…

Russell Brown

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:48:52 +1300

Jeez Michael, that was an amazingly selective bit of quoting there. here's the full profile, lest anyone think the Solictor General is a bunny:

Dr David Collins was appointed QC in 2000. He has extensive experience as a trial lawyer, both as defence counsel and since 2000 as prosecutor. This…

Russell Brown

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:46:39 +1300

Ironically, four media organisations are going to the High Court to try and get more court proceedings made public: in the first instance, the names of the accused — which defence lawyers are opposing.

The Commonwealth Press Union is also complaining about the closing of the court in Rotorua last…

InternationalObserver

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:48:26 +1300

And if everybody else's media jumped off a cliff, you'd expect our media to as well?

Heh heh, well yes, actually. And on the way down you'd hear them asking eachother: "Where's the storeyyyyyyyyy???"

Your points are correct but nostalgic. The media have already gone to hell in a handbasket, and…

Jeremy Andrew

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:10:38 +1300

Our media are only doing what other media (particularly the US) have done when presented with easy copy by 'the Authorities'. It's almost Pavlovian.

And if everybody else's media jumped off a cliff, you'd expect our media to as well?
Just because the US seem to accept the rabid meanderings…

Michael Fitzgerald

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 07:48:43 +1300

I'm lurching back to Political conspiracy with Helens convicting the 17 without a trial.

PM: activists 'trained to use napalm'
"I find it absolutely extraordinary that the Maori Party on the one hand is demanding police prosecute Trevor Mallard for assault and on the other is claiming people, who at…

InternationalObserver

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 00:40:17 +1300

Why blame the media for labeling them as they have when...

Er, I've been painting myself into a bit of a pedantic corner tonight. What I meant to say was that whilst I don't at all condone the media calling people terrorists (before conviction), I wonder why the focus is on…

Kyle Matthews

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 00:03:35 +1300

There is a difference between action and grandstanding. I have never yet heard of Greenpeace putting their enormous resources to the task of doing something useful like developing renewable energy sources for the third world. Rather, it remains a sort of ecologically-minded Outward Bound to soothe the guilt of the…

Michael Fitzgerald

Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:03:24 +1300

Popped onto Tumeke & Chris Trotter (?) linked this

http://indymedia.org.nz/newswire/display/74018/index.php

For generations, Maori have fought for their rights and their autonomy in staunch but nonviolent ways. With incredible patience they have abstained from the violent use force, despite constant aggressive reinvasion of their independent communities and confiscation of the taonga, such…