Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Te Qaeda and the God Squad

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  • Rich of Observationz,

    "so what were youse guys doing with napalm?"

    Some people like big bangs.
    This from Burning Man a few weeks ago

    40,000 people were watching that bad boy...

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Sonic,

    Let me try and explain why you say nowt when the police ask thus.

    Once upon a time, back in the old country during the 1984-1985 miners strike, an group of activists was captured on film helping to organise a push into the police lines.

    You could see their faces, hear them shout, was first on the news.

    Cops had them bang to rights.

    But they said nothing.

    Four months later case comes to court, the activists were looking at two years. Prosecution moves to submit the tape the whole country had seen, defence objects. Defence demands that if the police introduce video then the defence must see all of the police tapes of the event (with all of the footage of the Yorkshire plods battering the picket line for 3 hours)

    Prosecution withdraws it's request for tapes, no case, everyone walks.

    Shhhhh.
    ;)

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 102 posts Report Reply

  • webweaver,

    The amendment bill is a crock and should be thrown out. Unfortunately, it will probably pass by a massive margin of 111 - 10. Fundamental human rights? Justice? What are they?

    Who's voting against it, I/S? The Greens and the Maori party, presumably?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 332 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    Who's voting against it, I/S? The Greens and the Maori party, presumably?

    As I understand it, yes. Both opposed the First Reading.

    ACT might oppose it as well. But both major parties seem to think that justice is just something that can be dispensed with if it helps them secure convictions.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1716 posts Report Reply

  • webweaver,

    ... post 9/11 USA here we come... losing our rights a drop at a time...

    another reason why I vote green and not labour.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 332 posts Report Reply

  • J Wilkinson,

    As usual, I came to this discussion waaaaayyyyy too late, but the Herald reporting of this incident is an almost exact fulfilment of "prophecies" I heard several nutty AOG pastor's spout back in the late 80's...they obviously hadn't moved on from the 1977 incident outlined by Mr Brown in his original post.

    As an impressionable teenager, I was petrified after hearing on several occasions at pentecostal events that a militant Maori group was going to start a Civil war in NZ.

    One guy (who was not dissimilar to Brian Tamaki in retrospect) claimed that it was going to happen in the 1990's; that it would happen so fast and we'd be so unprepared for it that it would destroy our country as we know it.

    If I remember correctly the very scary Bill Subritzsky (related to the incredibly wealthy Subritzsky shipping family) even "prophesied" this uprising was going to happen.

    Oh my.....can you imagine the fieldday these churches are going to have this side of Christmas??!??!!?

    Perhaps only ex-pente's like me will understand.....!

    Grafton • Since Feb 2007 • 24 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    webweaver: you should see their new Immigration Bill, which allows any non-citizen to be arrested and indefinitely detained merely on suspicion that they are a security risk. This doesn't just apply to people who show up at the airport with a dodgy security record, but to permanent residents, and de facto permanent residents like Aussies and pre-1970's Brits. People who have lived here for decades will suddenly have no legal protections at all. Oh, and naturally the government will be allowed to use secret evidence against them as well.

    Fortunately, this one is still before select committee, and submissions are still open. So submit, and tell them you won't stand for it. It's probably a forlorn hope, but things won't change if we don't try.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1716 posts Report Reply

  • Sonic,

    Bail revoked.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 102 posts Report Reply

  • 100 Word,

    I would expect pretty much what he indicated: a few people will have said very, very stupid things in emails, phone conversations and possibly rooms. Things amply sufficient to warrant the interest of the police and upset the middle classes. What else are all the Indymedia types telling each other (and Bomber) to keep schtum about?

    I suspect there'll be a small group of nutters who've been talking big about 'revolution' and a subset of them that have taken to playing solidiers in the bush. It'll be interesting to see what evidence the Police have to suspect they were going to actually go through with something. Perhaps it'll just end up being about illegal weapons.

    I wonder whether Manukau Mayoral candidate Kelvyn Alp's name will pop up in the media given his big talk a few years back in Investigate and his previous association with Maori nationalists.
    [ http://www.investigatemagazine.com/pdf's/augsec2.pdf]

    Since Sep 2007 • 13 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison,

    Bail revoked.

    The Helen Clark-led assault on our rights scores another victory. I think I'll head out and buy my striped PJs before the rush.

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Bail revoked

    Till Friday, when he'll appear with the others arrested in Auckland.

    Could be quite a news day.

    Did the cops think they had enough to keep him in custody and still do the big reveal on Friday?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22843 posts Report Reply

  • Sonic,

    The police think they have something, but the spin control seems to be breaking down alreasy.

    From a media management point of view they lost the debate today. the airwaves where full of questioning voices.

    Police minister looked confident though.

    What could they have other than rash words and some rifles?

    Hmm.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 102 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye,

    If I remember correctly the very scary Bill Subritzsky (related to the incredibly wealthy Subritzsky shipping family) even "prophesied" this uprising was going to happen.

    Oh my.....can you imagine the fieldday these churches are going to have this side of Christmas??!??!!?

    Perhaps only ex-pente's like me will understand.....!

    Ooer, I didn't realise it was Subritzky fanning the flames. Oddly enough, there's a completely different prophesy (& from what I gather, the keystone of a handful of existing pente churches) from a similar era that NZ would be reclaimed as a flagship nation dedicated to christianity, starting with the iwis.

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 533 posts Report Reply

  • Creon Upton,

    Russel Brown asks: "Can you honestly tell me you'd rather not know about any of the above and it's all some people's private business?"

    Um, yes, I can.

    At least, I'd rather not know about in it this way.

    If a journalist did a story, maybe, I might read it.

    But if it really mattered to me - like there was a revolution happening in the streets - I would probably find out by checking to see what all the noise was about.

    But I'd have to be quick because, well, unless I'm really naive, I kind of think that some weapons bought on a trademe and a few backyard chemistry experiments would probably not hold out too long against the state.

    And I'd certainly rather live in a world where history was allowed to run its course than where faceless bureaucrats, bourgeois apologists, mindless cops, and politicians were deciding on my behalf what elements of history are better repressed before they occur.

    Where we never actually get to know whether they would have occured or not, so the intelligence of the above is never actually tested.

    It takes a hell of a lot for a group of people to actually do something significant - ie violent in this case - in respect of their ideals. And it's healthy for us as a society to know whether or not that point has actually been reached, or whether there's simply a lot of rhetoric going on and a few tree stumps are being blown up (a subject for journalists).

    Otherwise, this kind of low-rent, politicised behaviour from our 'law enforcement' is merely adding slow-burning fuel to the smoulder (if you will).

    Christchurch • Since Aug 2007 • 68 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    But what's your benchmark for a fizz-out?

    It'll turn out he knows some people who know some people who said some stuff. The whole case will fizzle around dangling the media tidbit of terrorism charges, and then wither away to a few misdemeanor charges, and maybe some drug supply. I'd be very surprised if charges of a political nature are laid, since I'd wager any plots whose bad side are hard time and whose good side is ... nothing ... will attract very, very few people, and none at all who could organize their way out of a paper bag. Such people are either already hardened criminals who would rather have an income, or already politicians cashing in. A few nutty dicks talking tough and playing wargames doesn't amount to a terror cell.

    The police will have achieved what they wanted, to lay bare (and thus bust up) the structure of the organization, such as it is. Some showboats will have achieved their goal of increasing notoriety and coverage. The media will sell copy.

    I think it's good to bust up people playing at having their own army. I don't think much needs to come of it, though, other than quite a few people will realize the cops have got their eyes on them. Any of them who have genuine brains and talent will probably choose another career.

    And we will have forgotten about the ABs. Hooray!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10655 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    And we will have forgotten about the ABs. Hooray!

    I suspect this is, in fact, the hidden agenda.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22843 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    The ease of which NZ can fall into a fascist state lies in our lack of a constitution. From time to time we have dipped our feet in those muddy waters. A Special constables truncheon from the waterfront strike is one of the family heirloom.

    Went to school and played soldiers with a couple of Subritzkys.
    Not bad guys but made the mistake of telling us he was a Count. We dropped a vowel.
    They celebrate their whakapapa via The Order of St Stanislav.

    http://www.angelfire.com/realm/StStanislas/NZCeremony5.html

    Check out the dude on the left.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Stevens,

    Phillip Sherry in RC Drag? OMG.....

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 230 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    Constitutions mean little in the face of a compliant judiciary. What's important is an active citizenry.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    I suspect this is, in fact, the hidden agenda.

    And we're all buying into it wholesale. Maori Nationalists and Hippies blew the World Cup for us. Burn them!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10655 posts Report Reply

  • Sonic,

    "Maori Nationalists and Hippies blew the World Cup for us"

    They got to the ref.

    We're through the looking glass here people.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 102 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    I was just checking my website stats, and discovered that someone had recently got to my website by googling for "free tame iti t-shirt".

    Unfortunately I can't help them out, but I reckon that right at this moment, there's someone hunched over Photoshop, busy turning a photo of Tame Iti into a Che Guevara-style design, which will soon grace the chests of concerned young men and women of Aotearoa.

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1946 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Constitutions mean little in the face of a compliant judiciary. What's important is an active citizenry.

    So if, as in NZ, the citizenry couldn't give a toss, then a constitution's not going to help? I agree.

    I think what keeps the NZ system honest is that it's small-time and mean. There's just not enough payback for corrupting officials, and no-one would consider blowing cash on that anyway.

    Don't knock it, it works. You can have a constitution cakewalk right through Tienanmen Square for all I care, and it won't make a lick of difference. Kiwis won't vote because there isn't an "Anyone but Banks" option.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10655 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    As Rich points out people like to make big bangs - I was there for that one - it was art, it was fun - in fact I've been going to the desert to make loud noises for years, sadly I've nowhere to do that in NZ yet .... probably a good thing, it would probably be terribly misunderstood ....

    On the other hand I'm not a gun fan, hunting weapons are OK, but no one has a reason for a semi-automatic etc etc nor napalm .... I don't know how to easily make the distinction though - I want to be able to fly rockets, make big bangs - I'm an adult and I can take my own risks - I think you need to look at people's intentions and their actions - In a more general (and less personal) case: running around in the bush in camo, shooting at human targets - bad, running around in the bush wearing a bush shirt shooting at deer good.

    I suspect a lot of what's been going on is a bunch of hot heads getting a bit far from themselves and talking up a good game, and a few who've genuinely done bad stuff - and some others who've been dragged into the mess and tarred on national TV by the police.

    It does seem to me that they don't need special terrorism legislation to have done what they've done - and as I/S points out the new stuff sounds quite scary - takes civil liberties beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned

    We've all watched the American and Australian govts play their citizens with the terrorism bugaboo and I think congratulated ourselves that we haven't fallen for the same pile of crap - I hope that this isn't the start of a similar play, whether deliberate or as a response to the wails from talkback radio in an election year, and if it is we don;t fall for it like those others have

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2622 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    but the way those stats were presented implies that without guns, all those lives would be saved.

    I don't think that's what it was implying at all. I think what it was implying was that if the 96% of guns that weren't registered, had to be registered, then there would be more gun safety in our society.

    It's not an uncommon view on both sides of the gun control debate, though there's a large bunch that don't want it obviously.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

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