Hard News: Not yet standing upright
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One of the fern designs will win the first round of the public voting
I bloody hope not. Insipid, the lot. I'm a big fan of the "Vote hypnoflag!" plan, and fully intend to promote it at every opportunity.
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I wanted a new flag. But I don't want any of the final four. So I'll vote against them, in the hope that maybe in 20 years we'll get another crack at it, and a better option.
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Good summation of how I feel too Russell. Part of me even suspects that the one koru-based design chosen was intentionally the most stark, to reduce its chances.
Mr Slack pointed out another of the oddities of this whole mess yesterday on Twitter: this government invests millions in NZTE's 'Better by Design' programme to show businesses why design expertise matters; yet when it comes to our flag they left design expertise completely out of the conversation.
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James Butler, in reply to
I’m a big fan of the “Vote hypnoflag!” plan, and fully intend to promote it at every opportunity
The alternative is the RSA’s "old man yells at cloud" plan to influence the process, which seems somewhat self-defeating. Voting hypnoflag fnord is probably the best way to help avoid any of the four winning (it helps that it’s the one of the four that I prefer, although I really wanted Wā kāinga).
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'bleak clipart' is perfect.
Although I've been suspicious of the whole exercise, I still want to vote for an alternative, because I don't like the current flag.
But the options we've been given... who are these people? What are they scared of?
(and yes -- with all the quite beautiful, simple Maori-referencing designs submitted, why did they choose one of the worst?) -
Otis Frizzell's not being in the final 4 is a mystery to me.
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
The alternative is the RSA’s “old man yells at cloud” plan to influence the process, which seems somewhat self-defeating.
All the more so since we don’t actually record spoiled ballots as anything other than “informal”. It’s a useless protest because it demonstrates nothing when reported as part of the final count.
I really wanted Wā kāinga
I've not actually paid very much attention to the various designs proposed, but that one is seriously classy. I like the explained symbolism, too.
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Rob Stowell, in reply to
Voting hypnoflag fnord is probably the best way to help avoid any of the four winning
Yep. If the 'anti-change', the 'anti-fern', the 'I love te koru', the 'I don't like JK', and the 'I don't like any of them' interests voted together, hypnoflag will easily beat the fern vote, which is likely to be split between the sporting symbol and the colourful red-and-blue version.
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Katharine Moody, in reply to
That I think is the Trevor Mallard suggestion? I'm a bit nervous about whether it will work in terms of a spoiler - as it actually participates in what has been a shocker of a process. It only 'works' in the event hypnoflag wins the first round and fails at the second vote.
So I'm toying between that and Winston's Peters' spoil the first vote altogether - as that gets recognised in the voting as a protest about the whole shambles.
Andrew Little's no vote at all option is really the worst - we have more than enough apathy to go around.
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Ferndale: a Clip Art Nation…
all four look digitally designed,
there is no humanity to any of them…and how hard would it be to have a one step, two question referendum?
<Picture of current flag:>
Q1; Do you wish to change the current NZ flag?
_ No. Thank you for your time.*
_ Yes. Go to Q2Q2: Which of the following four would you like to replace the current flag.
<pictures of the Ferndale Four>
(Tick or circle one: A B C D )all you’d need would be over 50% of Q1 answers to be Yes to activate choices from Q2
*or it could give people who vote No the chance to still indicate a preference – (Q2: If change is inevitable, which of the following four would you prefer to replace the current flag.) – which would be nicer, and the right thing to do
(just as putting No first on Q1 for those lazy ‘first option fillers’..Why the two-step?
…unless it is the Entropy Waltz…?
…take your partners
dose a dose
d0s-a-dos‘bleak clipart’
Snap, Sam...
;- ) -
Katharine Moody, in reply to
All the more so since we don’t actually record spoiled ballots as anything other than “informal”.
But surely media will report it for what it is - a protest vote.
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bleak clip-art
Oh yes, that's the one.
But I do feel sad about what this all says about us as a country.
We seem to lack courage when faced with design on a national basis. This whole schmozzle reminds me a little of the Te Papa build. Some amazing designs (including one by Frank Gehry) were submitted but we ended up with a government department office.
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
All the more so since we don’t actually record spoiled ballots as anything other than “informal”.
But surely media will report it for what it is – a protest vote.
"Informal" includes people who bugger it up, and since it's an STV vote buggering-up is entirely possible. With there being no actual recording of spoiled ballots as spoiled, the media cannot report anything except the percentage of votes that have been declared "informal" and how that compares to the percentages in other elections; probably local-body since we have no postal voting or STV at the national level.
Speaking of STV, I hope the papers will have randomised ordering.
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Next: A $26 million panel, comprising neither poets nor musicians, to select a short list for a new national anthem.
The National Party has managed to stuff up even this diversion from their other stuff ups.
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James Butler, in reply to
Next: A $26 million panel, comprising neither poets nor musicians, to select a short list for a new national anthem.
I'm eagerly waiting to be called up to a panel on sports or business policy.
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No mention of the fact two of the final four are in fact copyrighted. I'm sure the owner will sell them to us, but the question is why didn't the panel even pick that up???
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That video showing the 5 elements of design resonates with me but why didn't Mr Key's mates on the pseudo Panel watch it?
I guess those of us who are not impressed with the infamous 4, will have to vote for the Koru. If say 40% vote Koru, that would put it in the final with a sure bet to loose the race against the existing flag.
Or would Mr Key run true to his form and just make a unilateral decision and negate the referendum? -
Am I cynical or is the PM? When the 2 Lockwood designs were 'found' by the PM's pollster in March 2014 and here they are in the final four along with another fern and, to me, an ugly koru, I am wondering whether this $26m process was just a show for a pre-determined outcome.
Mind you, you cannot expect too much more these days. -
I had expected this flag vote to get more interesting as it progressed.
The submission process was kind of fun. Hopefully everyone had their favourite after that (mine was Hei Matau).
Then the long list should have raised expectations and prompted some debate. And the short list should have led to heated arguments about the deeper meanings of the designs.
Instead it has just got increasingly discouraging as it has gone along. It is pretty much hopeless now, if it wasn't so at the long list stage.
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
No mention of the fact two of the final four are in fact copyrighted.
They're all copyrighted! They have been expressed on paper, ergo copyrighted. The number of people who don't understand this is staggering.
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I'm happy that Hypnoflag has come out of this. (Credit to whoever is running that account.)
However like many I'm generally disappointed with both the process and its inevitable outcome. One of the key men in the process is Drury - who prominently hangs a white silver fern on a black background on a flagpole above his Wellington business. It's a logo, for a corporation.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
The other thing that TV3 reported last night is that the "Flag Consideration panel" of which was appointed by "a cross Party" group of MP's (who we still don't actually know) had to then submit their final choices to Cabinet to approve. So Cabinet decision for a Cabinet decision. How democratic, not.
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lprent, in reply to
It’s a useless protest because it demonstrates nothing when reported as part of the final count.
The 'Informal' votes are usually just couple of percent even in the most casual local body STV elections. With a good strong campaign behind it, I suspect that an informal vote in this idiotic referendum and with these mundane and mindless flags, we'll get close to or above the highest first count flag. All of those things are usually reported by elections.org.nz.
Having a high informal count will probably send a pretty good signal about this silly process, and more importantly it'd stop more people just not voting. Intentionally or unintentionally, this first referendum with these flags seems to designed to do exactly that - get people used to not voting.
Are you against voting?
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Clearly the committee of designed-by-committee people built the shortlist not on any kind of representation, but on what the corporate gangleaders in their midst personally prefer.
One of them said on radio yesterday words to the effect of: "well you have to have something that all New Zealanders can relate to, and that's the fern". Fern or koru, same thing, right. Bullshit.
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James Butler, in reply to
Having a high informal count will probably send a pretty good signal about this silly process, and more importantly it’d stop more people just not voting.
But it also means that the votes which are actually considered will contain a higher proportion of votes by people who actually like one of the alternatives, therefore raising the chances of having an alternative in the final runoff which those people will vote for.
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