fair response

It seems that PM Stephen Harper decided to seek an endorsement from Toronto’s former mayor and general fuck-up Rob Ford. There's speculation…

As someone who's spent almost her entire life subjugated by a totalitarian regime, lured here by the promise of our great western democratic system, I'm still getting a similar result on every attempt to outline our process to change a…

Hansard debate from 29 July. Trevor Mallard raises some interesting points . New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill. He begins…

John Key will include Red Peak in the first referendum if all the parties agree, sorry, if all the parties except New Zealand First agree…[…] and John Key is saying that if Red Peak doesn’t get on the ballot…

Flag change opposed by two-thirds – poll

Key's job (from his POV) is to drag Labour into the blame game, and so the public responds: "Politicians, eh? They're all the same!". Which is the default position for reporters, therefore headlines, therefore many voters.

A simple bill: add red peak, no strings…

I think they played it correctly by asking for the option of "no change" on the first referendum. Without that, National look to flag opponents, and in any case if the end result is no change, to be gratuitously…

That would not have been what Labour have been saying all along and simply would have led to National claiming that Labour are doing a flip,flop. Labour want…

Shame Labour didn't have a back-up bill, simply adding Red Peak, with no other changes. Would have put National on the spot.

When everyone does the expected, only the status quo…

He sent me an email a week or so ago, giving me a reply to one I sent him. It…

READ MORE: ‘Harden up’ comment stuns students

Flag that!

Yep

Labour is looking fairly well positioned on this:

Labour leader Andrew Little said on Monday the caucus would support Red Peak being included, either as a replacement or an extra…

in a series of three or more terms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma

Yes. Amongst the PAS…

As a linguist it depends on your predilection for either oral style usage in which people tend to put comma anywhere they’d pause when speaking (this is not a standard but on the net people seem happy…

And that's the frustrating thing. In any other profession you would be permanently unemployable for being as incompetent as some of these muppets. Where do they find em?

About a million people will have just watched the reports on the 6 pm news (One: Katie Bradford, Three: Brook Sabin). Let's…

I've deleted that derail.

Guys, think about it.

Speaking from bitter experience, that's a bloody hard thing to do, when you're the one in the hotseat, even when it's a topic you're very, very familiar with.

Safe to say they were not clear about it themselves. Yet another muffed communication opportunity.

That's fine so long as "do we want to change the NZ flag" isn't interpreted as the same thing as "do we want to swap the NZ flag for whatever the majority prefer of the…

I think there's a difference between "legal to use" and "meets legal requirements".

Also, you would think the Navy would want to change their ensign as well, the Canadians did. It's not as if it was a…

(but again, I'm shouting at the telly, why doesn't Little think on his feet, reinforce the point with an instant supplementary ... "In the light of that answer, which I'm happy to accept, is…

Er, yes. That is indeed the problem. So, doing the same is probably not the best way to change things.

But back on flags ... it's good to see that Labour have taken the…

Bollocks. Just because John Key and his lackeys sees fit to blame Labour for everything, and now he's priming the Media to blame Labour if this Flag bullshit bombs, there is…

Media release, timed 2 hours ago:

"Andrew Little welcomes the Prime Minister's belated backdown on the flag, and fully supports the inclusion of Red peak. Perhaps the Prime Minister will now support Labour's proposal to pay one quarter of the flag…

It's just more of the same: see Questions in Parliament, the past 7 years, on eternal repeat. Labour can't think on their feet and miss their chances, time after time.

(But there will later be an unread…

The person playing silly buggers here is the PM. Perhaps we could hold him…

Anyway, it's all very childish, but I hope Labour don't play silly buggers too. If there's a chance to include Red Peak, then take it.

He really is the most ridiculous excuse for a head of state.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/72047016/red-peak-given-a-sniff-by-pm-john-key

Perhaps a flag to reflect our image...
if ya give ’em a halyard, they’ll take a mylar...
:-D

Yeah, and... that's mostly the ok part of Stralia. The other side, another planet.

Hey ,what's wrong with Aerial pingpong ? With a name such as Aussie Rules, I can even hazard a guess as to which Country would win a Championship.…

It must be a source of disappointment to Crosby Textor that Aussie hasn't got a consensus code of football to get behind.

The hyping of the superstar sevens team heading to Rio de Janeiro for the Olympics, is what i feel could be the next distraction we face as the…

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2015/0066/latest/DLM6405391.html

The actual counting is done in secret, presumably so that how individuals vote remains secret (although as always, a postal ballot can never be properly secret as you can’t tell if anyone has seen, or even filled out on behalf, a voter’s ballot paper).

The results aren’t disclosed…

Says it all. Love the simplicity.

Speaking of simplicity – check out redpeakof.nz .. here's my favourite creation so far.

I want a pair!

I think of John Campbell,…

Thank you for your input on this issue, it has become alot clearer to me now that the flag referendum although not being a…

Might be a legal challenge over conflict of interest issues;

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11511139

And what design advice the panel did get – they look to have ignored;

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71941611/panel-advising-on-new-flag-cobbled-together-advice-from-designers

Such fun.

Proof dat de Debbil finds work for idle hands…
…gisajob, then , gisajob…

h/t Steven C
:- )

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11510969

Eh ?........ Plurality ?

Surely there are just two choices in the second referendum (when we decide whether or not to "reject change" ). So a majority is needed, surely ?

Although most polls (including the latest **__Colmar…

It’s not the media setting the agenda, rather it is the government. I haven’t found the coverage by MSM on this one necessarily bias (plenty of different viewpoints have been reported on) and neither…

I'm not Katherine but I think you are taking it seriously of which I thank you. It…

You might like this one, too.

installed the guerilla-style artwork around the large telephone pole on Takapuna Beach that marks the landing point of the Southern Cross Cable, which carries most of New Zealand’s internet data to and from the United…

The reason for being so put off this flag…

Strung up...
Key is so mighty like a flag
it's all in the way he
swings in the wind
& snaps to the gust
but mostly it's the way he
moistly hangs limply at the
top of…

After all, isn't a fern basically a maple leaf designed by committee?

If Key had been a bit…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/71791596/liam-hehir-tiny-minority-has-its-say-far-too-late-in-flag-debate

I had to laugh. Great alternative point of view if you're doing an essay on it :-).

I'm with you, there is a sense of realpolitik…

... to the four proposed.

It’d be interesting to juxtapose the free-spirited bikini with the keffiyeh or hijab which are commonly associated with strait-lacedness (or solidarity with Palestine). Maybe there’s some extra justification, to show the…

Refugees? Lyndon Hood's depictions are very poignant, yours could be too.After all John Key finds the flag more important.

I had no problem with mentally inserting St Richie's image into all four. Thanks…

Damn, I love Steve's work.

I actually asked Graeme Edgeler about this, and he says NZ parody law applies,…

A change afterwards (by Parliament, i.e. on Key's instructions to his caucus) is very unlikely, and will probably depend on the first referendum having a very low turnout, and/or the Hypnoflag winning.

to keep the proles occupied with trivialities while TPPAing it and selling off the homestead, we are putty.

We could get the voter himself to change his mind, it's…

How do we get the flag panel to change their minds?

Or a mirror. The picture would be backwards but...
Once you get the looking through bit its a piece of piss, as they say in Wandsworth. (apparently)
;)

Scratch 'n sniffs were a bit like that. Even the sticker that graced the sleeve of Peter Tosh's Legalise It. While it was presumably supposed to smell like herb, the best noses I submitted it to could only detect printer's ink.

That flag would be offensive to the Welsh. Sometimes you just can't win.

It looks more like a Kangaroo to me but it seems to have a horn on its head so not a T Rex but that could be an ear so...
I am good at these things, I used to do the…

file name is dino.jpeg
so I’m going for your latter fancy,
as it were…

where do you look to coalesce limbs?
focus & focal length?
does the background disappear?

I feel so excluded…

The US added a star for each new state, the EU/Council of Europe does not – it's always been 12.

I like these Canadian suggestions, especially the Beatles one.

and the number of stars on it change

https://flagspot.net/flags/br_astro.html

(with apologies to the Jianwei Nationalist State )

I don't really have a problem with any design of flag, it's the process and goal, which seems to be all around the idea that NZ needs better "corporate branding" so people will…

it looks like a flag, not a logo, and illustrates the point by placing it, and the officially shortlisted options, alongside some other great flags. It is simple enough…

maybe not a knitted ‘Steriogram’ flag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7UvbwCjXUk
(I hadn’t realised this was a Michael Gondry video)

but a visually knotted ‘stereogram’ flag could be the go (above ^ ) …
if ya can’t make it ‘pop’ – ya can’t be a…

These are single transferable votes, your vote only is contribiuted to one flag at a time, not fractions spread across multiple flags

(STV, where you're…

I couldn't find that yesterday but yes I remember now, cheers.

We can. You vote 1 on Hypnoflag and then nothing else. That way no other choices get your vote.

~~
I suggested before the design process started that we should go for a Lenticular flag – one that changes as it flies (as you see it from a…

As Katherine pointed out earlier, the STV system effectively negates this option. Assuming fern-fans vote fronds 1,2, 3 then hypnoflag doesn't stand a chance. And your hynoflag vote would then be counted as just another kiwi engaging with Key's chosen process.

Winnie's KOF…

See it here;

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/71636970/ngaio-school-children-prefer-to-fly-their-own-flag

More to the point – I’ll bet they are an imported product (packaged and manufactured overseas) – so one of our potential flags was either designed by a factory shop person in some far…

Yes, it was all over Twitter too. I couldn't work out who took the original photo.

I wish that someone at the Herald would look up the meaning of gerrymander before they use it again. 5 times in two days, all wrong.

(it's getting like that time journalists were all…

From a press release at that time:
"The New Zealand operations of trans-Tasman printing group Blue Star have been bought by Australian private equity…

If a monarch were to start personally refusing to accept advice then that would create an interesting situation. If they did that in the UK, they'd almost certainly come under…

Lyndon Hood answered.

The Constitution Act does not actually require the Queen to appoint a GG;…

I agree with everything apart from that. The Constitution Act defines the relationship between state, government, Governor-General and Monarch.

Should Charles III decide to assume personal sovereignty, he'd have to obtain the consent of…

Now you are spoiling for a fight.
Muldoon left the country virtually bankrupt.
The "Next Best Thing" as you put it, was the Lange government, the 4th Labour Government. They gave us our Nuclear Free…

I've got so fucking sick of this particular piece I even wrote about it on FB:
__
I can't believe I'm dignifying this piece of drivel with time and analysis, but I'm getting tired of shooting it down. So, here goes.

About this…

That's an interesting question actually – was there public consultation after the longlist was published? I don't remember any being promoted.

If not, what was the point of that?

As for weirdo conspiracy theories going around on FB right now – somehow changing it endorses the TPP, and the first referendum is a "write in" option according to the RSA – what is up with all that?

It's…

Govt Printer or whoever owns that...

Funny you should mention that....

Rank's next big move was the purchase of the Government Printing Office for $23 million.

The acquisition was due to be settled on January 31, 1990, but payment…

I quite like the one with the woman doing the washing. So apt for the time.

To present the illusion of choice.

? We shall stand by our elected leader and not let petty squabbles and egos wreck our Party?
You do realise that most of what you think about Labour is what National want you to think, don't you?.

Great. That will come in handy when I need to do some Dustin.....
/coat

Until recently on a stroll around New Zealand suburbs you were generally likely to encounter three flags flying; the current National flag, Tino Rangatiratanga, and the All Black Flag, A very real outcome of this mess…

Imagine an underwhelming vote for change – low turnout, narrow majority. Unlike general elections, this can't get reversed any time soon. What then?

The best hope for "pro change" advocates is that by March people…

True, but a lot of things really would need to change quickly, passports, official documents bearing a seal, flags at embassys etc

The point is not that it might be billions but rather that the $26 million number is just…

...a fine expression of mathematical knot theory looking for polarity with support from the primary produce sector – all inclusive.

Crest of Parliament (above)

and Hastings!

and Driver’s Licence

(I note the Ferndale Mob and their Fronds have claimed the passport well and truly)

I’m kind of flattered that you took my massive logical leap missive seriously.

However, I do think it will cost much more than we realise, and, at whatever cost, the change hardly seems worth it, unless we can all ‘stand for’ the…

Only if we decide everything must change immediately. Corporates do that because of branding, but if we decided to grandparent it, there'd be no need to change things in a rush, and that would…

Anyone want to…

Consider the cost of actually changing the flag

Anyone want to guess how much it will cost to change every iteration of the flag in every government agency?

http://www.photius.com/flags/alphabetic_list.html

One thing we can all do is sign the ActionStation open letter.

Nah the vampire bats and sticklebacks amongst us got on top for a while
cant be for much longer.
We could torture them with mirrors MWAHAHAHA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsf2zCcWuTE

Way back in 1990, The Listener ran a design competition for a new national flag, publishing the best in a series of articles over subsequent weeks (Gordon Campbell seemed to be the main journo involved).…

I hope you mean the revolting John Key. Don't get suckered into thinking that Labour has a problem, it simply isn't true.

Almost as stupid as voting for one.

Sigh...

Andrew Little has made the point that this is a trivial piece of nonsense invented by a trivial Prime Minister to hide real problems, I tend to agree. I wont bother with the first referendum, it is…

Thanks Matthew... even the Facebook-deprived can view that now. ;-)

Not in an STV vote – more to the point the ferns votes will come together if people rank the three ferns in consecutive…

Pretty clear he doesn't want Labour voters to vote.

But yeah NOT voting for a flag is the stupidest idea

Andrew Little’s no vote at all option is really the worst – we have more than enough apathy to go around

I quite agree – thought that was a very silly thing to say (even if I don’t care for any of the flag options). Does he want people not…

http://www.swimming.org.nz/visageimages/Swimmers%20Resources/HPSNZ/HPSNZ%20White%20Logo.jpg

Which rather proves the point.

Your earlier rankings can never harm your later rankings. There is no harm at all in ranking the other flags in order of your…

Glad to see you got the water going down the right way, anti-clockwise but the thing with flags is you can see them from both sides and that could cause confusion.
Bearing this in mind perhaps we should change the name of the country to AoxomoxoA and…

They're not binding, but. And would be scheduled to be held after the second referendum is completed.

This has become an awful, awful, awful process.