Hard News: #NetHui: it's all about you
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Islander, in reply to
Aw, go on - do it!
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Jackie Clark, in reply to
I am Sgt Schultz. Personified.
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Emma Hart, in reply to
No, it wasn't. That was "Don't be a dick."
Damn, and I was going to talk about cars.
At least two of my threads have been derailed by conversations about cars. I secretly love it. I find the organic nature of the conversation delightful.
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Sacha, in reply to
I'm sure he wasn't from a tycoon's family, but.
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Sacha, in reply to
That was "Don't be a dick."
A big improvement on "don't have one".
#progress -
Jackie Clark, in reply to
I don't know about that. But TBH Capt of Industry and Tycoon? 2 enormously different propositions. And see how much more privileged I should have been?
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Sacha, in reply to
Magnate?
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Jackie Clark, in reply to
No no no. Magnate and tycoon imply shitloads of money. Even though my upbringing was privileged for the time, - we had a bach, and a boat (well, several, but they weren't pleasure craft) and a nice house, and we all went to good schools, and university - by today's obscenely monied families standards, we would have been the poor country cousins.
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recordari, in reply to
Aw, go on – do it!
Ok, just a little. The Gazelle was our wedding car. The funniest part was when the rather nice hotel we stayed in, with valet parking, had to ask us to park it ourselves, because of all those nasty gears, and that clutch thingy. Speaking of which, the first thing I had to do when I got the Superminx in Wellington was change the clutch.
Of course they’re a poet’s car, to be sure;
…
On the floor of her bedroom lie blazer and shorts,
And the cream-coloured walls are be-trophied with sports,
And westering, questioning settles the sun,
On your low-leaded window, Miss Joan Hunter Dunn.The Hillman is waiting, the light’s in the hall,
The pictures of Egypt are bright on the wall,
My sweet, I am standing beside the oak stair
And there on the landing’s the light on your hair.By roads ‘not adopted’, by woodlanded ways,
She drove to the club in the late summer haze,
Into nine-o’clock Camberley, heavy with bells
And mushroomy, pine-woody, evergreen smells.
…John Betjeman A Subaltern’s Love Song.
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bmk,
The funny thing is how (in my experience) people with lots of money and expensive lifestyles have told me about how the two are different sets of people. A lot of people with loads of money live relatively normal lives, living in a fairly average house and having a nice car but nothing extravagant. Whereas the people living in mansions with expensive cars seldom had that high a net worth as they had massively high debt.
When I thought about this it made sense in that the people who lived averagely while earning a lot would accumulate wealth. While people who live an expensive lifestyle would probably spend it as fast as they earn it.
As people the first group are far more pleasant than the second group. I have nothing against people who have a lot of money. But people who want everyone to know that they have more money than you aren't as easy to like.
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Lilith __, in reply to
Actually, there’s a long-established pattern of people coming in a bit bristly then eventually getting the rhythm of the place and becoming highly valued contributors. Like you. And recordari.
Lilith, as I recall, came in to comment on Emma’s chronic fatigue syndrome, took a short while to get her bearings, and has been an excellent new voice.
Crikey, I go away for a couple of hours and then have all this reading to catch up on! You are all so clever and interesting. And cheers, Russell. :-)
Emma’s CFS thread got me fired up to join in, when I had felt rather daunted and self-conscious. It’s a subject with a lot of personal significance for me, and I’m aware I was rather aggressive about it at first. But it did slowly dawn on me that people were hearing what I had to say, even if not everyone agreed. And it’s so great to be heard, especially by so many people. So all you lurkers out there: it might be scary at first, but it’s so rewarding to be part of the conversation.
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andin, in reply to
because of all those nasty gears, and that clutch thingy.
And a column shifter! My only Hillman was a Californian
Cream and Green -
Sacha, in reply to
wealth
allows a rather different relationship with opportunity and security than poverty offers. Hence the p word.
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recordari, in reply to
And a column shifter! My only Hillman was a Californian
Awesome! Still dreaming of the Sunbeam Rapier Series 3a Convertible. Now that’s a car of privilege.
ETA: 'And a column shifter!' Funny how I'd forgotten that added complication, as it just seemed 'normal'. He did look rather bemused.
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bmk, in reply to
Yes I understand that. Was just making (I guess kind of randomly - not even sure how it was meant to tie in with what was being discussed) the observation that a lot of people who need to show how wealthy they are often aren't at all.
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I don’t think that’s anything to apologise for – au contraire, I think it’s something to use for the good. Pay it forward. That’s all that “privilege” or, as I like to call it, good fortune, is good for.
But that's not what privilege is. And that's where my problem with it being bandied about as an attack comes from.
It's not something to apologise for. It's something to remember, and to work towards acknowledging. As a white, cis, hetero woman, I am chock full of it, and I try to remember that when I am talking to people. Because words hurt. And casual sexism/classism/racism/choose-your-ism hurt more.
In all the writing around SlutWalk, I saw so many references to "women" being the victims of sexual assault. And Emma and I tried really hard to make sure we talk about male victims as well. Others didn't. That's a kind of privilege. Because society thinks rape is something that only happens to women, and so all the conversations are about that, and it erases other victims.
The problem is, when people scream "you're showing your privilege", it often shuts out genuine debate, because people don't like saying "um, no, I don't think I am".
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Islander, in reply to
Oooh! THAT IS LOVERLY!
Hillmans were another family thing (for vehicles...)
Mind you, I do not wish to discuss my beloved & esteemed mother's purchase of a Hillman Imp... -
Someone (Ben?) asked a couple of pages back what got some people to comment?
For me, it was a lot of things. I don't comment on the political posts, because professionally, it is difficult. But also, I was intimidated by the Very Smart People here. Invariably, I'd go to say something, and someone else would already have said it much better. And with more evidence, and having actually read a book about it. And then, Hadyn starting writing about sport, and he was my friend, so it was less intimidating, and something I could talk about it.
And then I started commenting on Emma's posts, and that was that. I am very glad I got over my fear of not being smart enough, and pretty comfortable with my role as Emma's yappy, filthy little sidekick.
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Danielle, in reply to
But that’s not what privilege is.
Yeah, in this particular context, that word isn't about how you as an individual were brought up, or how much money your parents had, or whatever. It's about shit you don't have to deal with because society treats your... qualities? characteristics?... as normative.
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Megan Wegan, in reply to
And there she goes, proving my point about how sometimes people say things better than I can.
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Someone (Ben?) asked a couple of pages back what got some people to comment?
I've noticed that I only comment when people talk about lurkers - pretty sure this was the last time I commented, ooh, about 4 years ago. I'm the archetypal lurker. I'd offer myself as a research subject but I'm too busy lurking to answer any research questionnaires.
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Jackie Clark, in reply to
Ah, yes. If I may. "Since social status is conferred in many different ways — everything from race to geography to class — all people are both privileged and non-privileged in certain aspects of their life. Furthermore, since dynamics of social status are highly dependent on situation, a person can benefit from privilege in one situation while not benefiting from it in another. It is also possible to have a situation in which a person simultaneously is the beneficiary of privilege while also being the recipient of discrimination in an area which they do not benefit from privilege." Which is my point, entirely. And it is why I don't like the term. Normative is far less highly charged, for me at any rate.
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Sacha, in reply to
It's about shit you don't have to deal with because society treats your... qualities? characteristics?... as normative
Yes. When our way of being in the world matches the main way that society and institutions are set up we have (often unquestioned) power. Along many dimensions.
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Makes it harder - but not impossible - to empathise with non-dominant experiences. Which is a weakness rather than a strength.
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And also? I work in ECE, which is one of the MOST politically correct sectors, and have done so for 15 years. No-one has ever ever ever used the p word. Ever. The terms used are far more pragmatic. In my world, palagi is the p word that's used to imply that someone's up themselves. Ironically, the kids tell me I'm Maori. Because that means I am less snobby than palagi, but they know I ain't Pasifika.
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