Hard News: Dirty Politics
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He knows about security so it's probably "Il0veJud1th"
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pohutukawa tree, in reply to
He knows about security so it's probably "Il0veJud1th"
Yeah, that's good. Thank you.
Actually, he knows about security guards. Not their job, but who they're screwing, which hand they wipe their butts with, whether they wash their hands or not, etcetera.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Whatever the wider implications, the book has had a profound effect on me, personally. Something that doesn’t come across in the news coverage about Dirty Politics, and Cameron Slater, Jason Ede, Jordan Williams, Simon Lusk et al is just how fucking awful these people are. They spend their lives trying to poison and contaminate our politics.
I've been dwelling on this too. When I got off the plane in Christchurch yesterday, having read most of the book on the flight from Auckland, I actually felt shocked at how hideous these people had been shown to be. Like Danyl, I think the book has had a significant impact on me. I've been on civil terms with some people in the wider circle. I'm not sure I have it in me to do that any more. Fuck them.
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stephen clover, in reply to
I had typed a long response but I subsequently deleted that in favour of a simple:
+1
Thanks, Russell.
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I'm not sure if this is new information, but it looks pretty stark today: Bevan Chuang on Slater's "Story of the Year" .
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Sacha, in reply to
civil
the word Farrar incited while blocking me after myself and the current Privacy Commisioner challenged him on his conduct immmediately after lawyer Greg King's suicide. Entitled scumbag.
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Sacha, in reply to
I'm not sure I have it in me to do that any more. Fuck them.
a fair response. we're not obliged to waste energy on moral turds.
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I am finding now in conversations, usually with work colleagues, even more so than normal, if it is political and there is a person defending National, I just have to get up.and leave otherwise I WILL get too wound up and probably end up saying something they will find offensive. I mean how can people just let the country crash and burn like this? How does this happen? Don't we have movies showing us what is good and bad?Another poll with National way ahead and I am just beyond despair. I feel like completely disengaging because it all seems so hopeless.
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Another poll with National way ahead and I am just beyond despair. I feel like completely disengaging because it all seems so hopeless.
But that’s the point of these polls and the way they’re reported. They never (or very rarely) predict the actual share of votes in elections. That’s not what they’re for. Their main function is exactly to suppress turnout and encourage apathy and hopelessness. So don’t disengage: that’s what the pollsters want you to do.
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The trouble with wankers like these is that they believe us leftie liberals are just the same behind closed doors (well, some of us are), and the inclusive "PC" language and blather is exactly that. Blather, and but a deeply-held political stance.
People like that believe we'd be just as opportunist as them, given the chance, but with an extra helping of hypocrisy. Given some members of the leftie parliamentary parties, they might be excused a small degree of confusion, but they think we're all that way.
And on the other side, I know there are National voters who genuinely believe in small-c conservative principles. But the current culture for the main players can only be described as toxic.
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Matthew Littlewood, in reply to
Like Danyl, I think the book has had a significant impact on me. I’ve been on civil terms with some people in the wider circle. I’m not sure I have it in me to do that any more. Fuck them.
After reading the book, I really wonder who was really responsible for Whaleoil's series of repugnant posts on Tania Billingsley. It seems consistent with the stuff he was constantly being fed and passing off as his own.
It's pretty bloody appalling, really.
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Just hopefully there are some decent National Party people who read the book and find this behaviour as shocking and dirty as we do. Maybe they will try to reclaim their party just as we are trying to reclaim democracy.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Another poll with National way ahead and I am just beyond despair. I feel like completely disengaging because it all seems so hopeless.
If I'm not much mistaken, it was collected right before Dirty Politics came out. All the same, is Dirty Politics truly a game breaker, or just preaching to the choir? Even if it's the latter, it might just motivate undecided Left voters into becoming not so undecided Left voters.
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cindy baxter, in reply to
If I'm not much mistaken, it was collected right before Dirty Politics came out. All the same, is Dirty Politics truly a game breaker, or just preaching to the choir? Even if it's the latter, it might just motivate undecided Left voters into becoming not so undecided Left voters.
Yup, before the book. However, I fear there is some truth in this quote by Simon Lusk (in the book, and repeated by Gordon Campbell):
“There are a few basic propositions with negative campaigning that are worth knowing about. It lowers turnout, favours right more than left as the right continues to turn out, and drives away the independents.’ In short, many people stop participating in politics. If politicians cannot be trusted, if politics looks like a petty or ugly game, and if no one seems to be talking about the things that matter, then what’s the point of bothering to participate? Just leave them to it.
http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2014/08/14/gordon-campbell-on-nicky-hagers-new-book/#more-3459
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This enhanced vox pops from the streets of Papakura, Christchurch and Wellington on Campbell Live last night might provide some encouragement. Setting aside the closed minds certain of their knowledge from that nice Mr Key and his enablers, there look to be good numbers interested in engaging with the subject when given a chance, and likely to shift their vote, quite sufficient to make a decisive difference.
I’m hopeful Nicky Hager will release the evidential material, no more than one chapter’s worth at a time, over the next few weeks.
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It seems that there are similar issues on the other side of the Tasman with the democratic order being adjudged of less value than the profits of the few - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/15/wayne-swan-warns-rise-business-oligarchs-new-book-good-fight?CMP=ema_632. Maybe we're not so different, after all.
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JLM,
I'm looking for the Dirty Politics webpage, which I looked at on Wednesday, but it seems to be swamped by all the other stuff in google and I can't find it again. Can someone post a link for me?
I haven't finished my kindle copy yet - have to pace the outrage - but I hope they publish most of the chapter about Carrick Graham in a Sunday paper. Even an overseas one would be good. I think this story is bigger than our little corner.
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izogi, in reply to
I’m looking for the Dirty Politics webpage, [--snip--] Can someone post a link for me?
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JLM, in reply to
Thank you, that's it. Another middle of the night thought that came to me is to wonder how many journalists and general media people are supporting the anti-Hager push because they are compromised in the same way that Slater, Lush and Carrick Graham enable.
Like others I find it distressing to read about such hatred, it always makes me think of ee cummings and "hate is why men breathe". That was in a poem in memory of his father, so here's a bit of it in memory of Jack Shallcrass, another good man.
then let men kill which cannot share,
let blood and flesh be mud and mire,
scheming imagine,passion willed,
freedom a drug that’s bought and soldgiving to steal and cruel kind,
a heart to fear,to doubt a mind,
to differ a disease of same,
conform the pinnacle of amthough dull were all we taste as bright,
bitter all utterly things sweet,
maggoty minus and dumb death
all we inherit,all bequeathand nothing quite so least as truth
—i say though hate were why men breathe—
because my Father lived his soul
love is the whole and more than all -
And on TV3's "The Nation", Cameron Slater accidentally incriminates Judith Collins, confirming her "leak" and contradicting her earlier denials.
That's the lead story, right there.
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Cecelia, in reply to
Thanks for the poem. Comforting after finishing the book.
Trying not to hate the perpetrators who seem to detest most of their fellow NZers.
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In a weird way, I feel sorry for them. How exactly does someone like Slater or Odgers end up such an angry, toxic person? At what point do you lose your empathy, and stop seeing the people and only see the politics? It's sad.
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It's not even politics, it's pure us vs them, which has a long and dishonourable history. Person x is on the other team (whether that's within the nats or outside) and is therefore scum and not worthy of any respect whatsoever.
One hateful team pretty much inevitably gives rise to its opposite, and it's hard not to respond to it all by picking up a pitchfork and wading in. Hager's done a masterful job of keeping a tone of measured disapproval throughout the book. I think he's right in that the whole thing poisons the well, and makes politics only possible for those with the spoons to engage on that level, turning off the majority of us who don't think calling people c****s etc is acceptable political discourse. But how else do you shut it down? I don't have an answer.
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It's a bit apocalyptic, but this is nicely put:
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity. -
Kumara Republic, in reply to
In a weird way, I feel sorry for them. How exactly does someone like Slater or Odgers end up such an angry, toxic person? At what point do you lose your empathy, and stop seeing the people and only see the politics? It’s sad.
Narcissism and entitlement are likely factors. In the case of Slater, he's slipped a few rungs on the social ladder and scapegoats the reds/greens/blacks/browns/pinks/ (__insert sterotypical political colour here) for holding him back.
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