Hard News: Claims
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At high school I remember many male classmates talking about having seen video's of bestiality. It was just passed off as something amusing.
I'm sure not every high school had the same things being discussed/watched but then again I'd be fascinated to know how many people HAVE seen something over the past two to three decades in a video at home, at someones place or on the internet that was dodgy.
At times I think people get a bit moralistic and then think....um.... hang on a minute, that's right, at that party in 1991 at my mates house someone etc etc, stripper/prostitute, lap dance, All Black dressing room at Eden park, 1999 etc etc.
I'd be way more concerned if it was child porn, or somebody in the house was getting the shit beaten out of them, or people were driving home from the fundraiser boozed than if some dork puts on a video of a weirdo and the local fauna.
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a video of a weirdo and the local fauna.
And, from the little we've heard that seems to be what this one was.
But some bestiality featuring women is really nasty. Degrading and demeaning - and that sort of contempt for females is one thing that seems to be demonstrated by the stories we've been hearing about the 'police culture' in the 80s. So maybe that's the style of bestiality that is worrying some of the commentators? -
The man didn't know he was going to be Police Commissioner, and you can't live your life in moral purity just because you might one day end up having an important job
I must have had a remarkably sheltered upbringing - being raised in a convent by wolves, only let out to deliver soup and prayer cards to the virtuous poor and all :) - but I'm fairly confident most poeple act decently because... well, they're fundamentally decent human beings (however flawed) not because it might FUBAR their career prospects. I know you mean it like that, but it's pretty insulting - not only to cops but men in general - to just shrug your shoulders and treat what most people would regard as an extreme form of pornography as *meh* just what went down in rugby circles in the early 80's. (Then again, being all of nine at the time I didn't have a particularly active social life.)
In a way, it's like I thought the weakest defence of the assault allegations against David Benson Pope was "well, it was a different time and everyone behaved like that." First, I'd call b.s. on that - and I know more than a few teachers who'd do the same. Second, gagging a student with a tennis ball has never been an acceptable or legal form of student discipline in this country, and it no more becomes so even if everyone did. That just means there were a hell of a lot of petty sadists in the teaching profession getting away with common assault.
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Can they definately confirm that it was bestiality and not zoophilia?
God god, what the hell am I saying?!
Can we please have a discussion on sport, gardening or whats happening on the Sopranos?!
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DPF,
A few comments:
1) Broad does not do himself any favours by saying if it happened today there would be some sort of internal disciplinary action. The better response would be that the officer who purchased and screened the video would be charged. The current law has jail terms of up to ten years for offences related to objectionable publications.
2) The involvement of Idour can only ring huge warning bells in relation to credibility. He is a proven liar.
3) Broad has asked the PCA to investigate the allegations. That is an appropriate course of action.
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That just means there were a hell of a lot of petty sadists in the teaching profession getting away with common assault.
That was how I viewed homework when I was at school and why I don't give any out nowadays.
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Aaargh... Jackie before you quite properly nuke me, that should have read I know you DON'T mean it like that, but it's pretty insulting...
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I don't think the involvement of Wayne Idour should necessarily be seen as the kiss of death. He was also involved in the David Bain defence. The law lords have just found a substantial miscarraige of justice occured in that particular case.
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well, yes Craig - being a decent human being is one thing, but really, haven't we all done shit that's morally questionable? I really do mean it about it being 1981 - it truly was a different time. I went to school, in my 7th form year - which was, incidentally 1981 - and the big joke amongst the boys in my year was the time they went to the beach and stoned a seagull to death. The whole year was spent making seagull noises. Oh, and I do believe they used to have concrete hanky sessions ( I don't particularly want to explain that. You may need to use some imagination). Nowadays they are all in senior positions, men in their mid 40's, and yes, most of them turned out to be really good human beings. I think if people want to be all moralistic, fine and dandy. But we all do, or are witness to, or are around people who do, stupid, morally reprehensible things when we're young. I just can't get morally exercised about a bunch of young men watching a bit of filth. Just like I can't get morally exercised about alot of stuff. Police rape is one thing. Watching filthy, disgusting films is quite another.
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I just can't get morally exercised about a bunch of young men watching a bit of filth. Just like I can't get morally exercised about alot of stuff
Well, fair enough - there's enough vacuous insincerity in the world, and kudos to you for not wanting to increasing the supply. To be honest, I can't really get too exercised about "a bunch of young men watching a bit of filth" either - what porn I've seen gives me lower back pain rather than any physiological signs of arousal. It's sad and rather silly.
But I think (and am sure I'm going to get dissent from all angles) that there's a difference between being broad-minded and tolerant of the limitless human capacity for absurdity (which is a virtue, on the whole), and having your mind so wide open nothing touches the side. ANd you chuck animals and human beings into a live sex act, and my mind implodes at great speed - though that might just make me zoophobic. Who knows?
Anyway, as DPF said, I think Broad has taken the appropriate course of action and I'll call off the lynch mob until something more solid comes up. ;)
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I must have had a remarkably sheltered upbringing - being raised in a convent by wolves, only let out to deliver soup and prayer cards to the virtuous poor and all :) - but I'm fairly confident most poeple act decently because... well, they're fundamentally decent human beings (however flawed) not because it might FUBAR their career prospects. I know you mean it like that, but it's pretty insulting - not only to cops but men in general - to just shrug your shoulders and treat what most people would regard as an extreme form of pornography as *meh* just what went down in rugby circles in the early 80's.
Bestiality's gross (much more so when it's used to degrade women, which doesn't seem to have been the case here) and I'm feeling icky reading about it so much, but the fact that it's covered under the same censorship law as child porn. doesn't meant the social sanction is the same. It's clearly not.
But mainly, again: Broad was a 23 year-old constable who didn't formally report an objectionable film that he didn't see to superior officers who already knew about it. But, according to Broad, he did informally complain. Really, I'm hardly about to have the man fired as police commissioner on the basis of that.
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I challenge anyone (who "grew up" in the 80s to say they have not viewed a minute's worth of beastiality video ("Animal Farm"?) not for gratification but for curiosity's sake... That does not equate to enjoyment.
Anyway, Joe Karam has always been more interesting than most; The Early years
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From Scoop:
Ms Clark pointed out that some of the allegations had been made by a woman in Christchurch Women's Prison. According to the PM allegations of improper behaviour in Dunedin had been made to current Health Minister Pete Hodgson who had then asked his Labour colleague and Christchurch central Mr Barnett to visit the woman behind the allegations. Apparently the woman had not been willing to put her name to any of the allegations. The PM pointed out that her MPs were not necessarily 'sleuths'.
So they covered up by, um, sending someone to investigate ...
Wishart has the woman's affadavits online now. They really read like the statements of a mentally ill person.
The matters raised in the latest Investigate magazine have however been referred to the Police Complaints Authority. The PM also implied that former Policeman and current Private Eye Wayne Idour may have had something to do with the allegations contained in the June 2007 issue of Investigate. Mr Idour was revealed late last year to have been employed by the Exclusive Brethren to dig dirt on Labour Party MPs.
And if this is true, someone needs to go ahead and crucify Wishart. From September last year:
STATEMENT FROM INVESTIGATE MAGAZINE
We would like to point out for the record that no information we've used has ever come from Idour or the Exclusive Brethren.
And:
The magazine continues to generate news tips, even from within the Labour Party - because the public have come to realize that Investigate will always protect its sources.
I can confirm, however, that we are now actively investigating reports that Labour hired a private investigation firm to dig dirt on National leader Don Brash and MP John Key.we only became aware of this while watching Campbell Live.
Guess Ian got sidetracked.
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I challenge anyone (who "grew up" in the 80s to say they have not viewed a minute's worth of beastiality video ("Animal Farm"?) not for gratification but for curiosity's sake... That does not equate to enjoyment.
And that would be the film that I think a generation of classmates at my high school watched.
I always felt like the odd one out for not actually watching it.
Maybe because I lived on a farm.
And I now ban myself from this thread...
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You might be right Yamis, but I grew up in the city so I guess there was some kind of macarbre interest. It's important to know what makes Canterbury tick.....
You'd agree that Joe Karam is more interesting than your average NZ sportsman though?
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You'd agree that Joe Karam is more interesting than your average NZ sportsman though?
I think you and I are more interesting than your average professional sportsman in NZ.
Glenora! What a disgrace. Our enemies. He should have signed for the mighty Te Atatu Roosters.
Glenora did produce Dean Lonergan though. Where would boxing be without him?!
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Glenora did produce Dean Lonergan though. Where would boxing be without him?!
Interesting circle developing here.
From one "White Knight" to another.
Out of interest, what were Glenora thinking back in '76? And didn't Joe realise he'd get a stack-load of diamonds for touring the Republic and ruining the Montral Olympics?
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Russell, I so wish we had real journalists like yourself in the msm.
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Very interesting post and discussion thread, kudos to you all.
I for one can't take Wishart seriously because he insists on lacing his magazine with Bible literalist/Anti evolution propoganda every month. Now I don't doubt he clearly has strong beliefs there, as is his right, but it makes his news magazine intensely disjointed. Is his magazine a propoganda tool for his religious beliefs, or for NZ political scandal? It can't be both, not if he wants to be taken seriously.
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if it was kiddieporn and not bestiality that they watched last century ... would we all still be so willing to sweep this under the carpet?
NO
Bestiality's gross (much more so when it's used to degrade women, which doesn't seem to have been the case here)
Beastiality is indeed gross, irrespective of the gender of the participant, however given the timeframe and as it was a male in this case I felt I could make an attempt to be humorous about it.
zoophilia notwithstanding, if it was a sheep instead of a chicken, would the video have been a documentary.
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1. So is it OK to watch a bit of beastility as a curiosity (um, who could get turned on by that?)
2. How do I get an avatar round here? (no sheep please) -
Good point Ben.
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I'm wondering if the reason numerous twits are equating this chicken-flick with kiddie porn is because about the same time that I remember some dumb chicken-flick doing the rounds of my mates in the 80s, a number of films involving Traci Lords turned out to have been when she was a minor. Most of the porn-watching population of NZ at the time have watched 'kiddie porn'. That they were unsuspecting won't stop the likes of Wishart.
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And that would be the film that I think a generation of classmates at my high school watched.
Yamis, I suspect the most popular form of oral sex among teenage boys is still talking testosterone-rich bollocks. The map of Tasmania was more terra incognita (and terra nullius come to that) than most of us really cared to admit, and I don't think my experience was in any way atypical. (And at the risk of sounding all Clintonian, a grope is a grope, and a snog is a snog, but calling any of that 'sex' is stretching a point.)
If my memory serves, Russell, weren't you in the UK during the whole 'video nasty' moral panic in the early 80's? Apparently, the western world (among much else) was drowning in a tide of snuff films, everybody knew somebody who worked with someone whose ex- had seen one... Which is how urban myths always seem to play out.
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How do I get an avatar round here? (no sheep please)
Try http://site.gravatar.com/, however it seems to be off air at the moment.
For the record I was still in Ireland in the early 80's, where only people who could get the BBC (and those other foreign channels) knew anything about sex and a chicken-flick was a special at the local KFC. "free movie ticket when you buy a bucket".
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