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Speaker: Talking past each other: Ideological silos and research

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  • Russell Brown, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    The most notable of these threads was Graeme’s on ‘roast busters’ and free speech.

    That was three years ago, after 394 comments. I didn't agree with Graeme's perspective, but it's hardly a "pattern developing". Threads do occasionally need to end..

    And I would debate your "women versus men" framing in this case. A scan of the thread would indicate a range of views on either "side". But I can't tell anyone how to see things. I would like a rest though.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Deborah,

    Please take a look at Danielle's Twitter thread before you load that one on me.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Sacha,

    Please take a look at Danielle's Twitter thread before you load that one on me.

    Kind of begs the question of why you are looking at it, given you don't follow Danielle. But hey.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Seemed relevant, wouldn't you say? And my, check the quiet kvetching.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Sacha,

    Seemed relevant, wouldn't you say?

    Seems relevant to you, maybe. It seems creepy to me. And Russell does follow Danielle, so it's not as if she's speaking behind his back or anything. Get a hold of yourself.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    (No kvetching, by the way, I remember when you theatrically blocked her.)

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Both Russell and Deborah follow me on Twitter, and are friends with me on Facebook. I’m happy for them to see anything I post on social media regarding this thread.

    I’m not interested in interacting with you at all in future, Sacha, as I find you unnecessarily cruel.

    PS My Twitter profile isn't linked here for a reason. Could you not link the two, please? I have been threatened on Twitter before and it was frightening.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • linger,

    At the serious risk of mansplaining... one of the pairings of ideological silos we seem to keep getting stuck in here is the opposition between "obesity is a mass noun(!), and we should concentrate on its mass, probabilistic, population-level real-world effects" (as maintained by Bart, Sacha, and others) and "obese people are individuals, and their feelings are real too" (as voiced by Danielle, Deborah, and others).
    Each of these viewpoints, pursued to the point of ideological purity, causes the other camp some understandable frustration; but (and I'm certainly not the first person to note this: see Rebecca, for example) it's not a competition, and any political solution will have to balance both the population-level and the individual-level effects. Continuing the discussion means recognising and respecting these differences.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1889 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I presume “men” refers to me

    I presume “men” refers to me

    I was the only other person who discussed closing the thread, so I might be one third of the at least 2+ males that must exist to be men. I try generally assuming the best and posting to add to the surrounding knowledge, and I was regretting the nett outcome of my actions in this thread. If I was one of those being ascribed as feeling oppressed (and statistical the odds were pretty good I was one), then I note that those feelings were being misattributed to me.

    While the sugar tax was introduced by surprise by a right wing president, it was recently weakened (generally regarded as due to lobbying by corporates). Left wing parties opposed weakening the sugar tax.

    However, the lower house of Congress voted in October to halve the tax on soft drinks containing less than 5 grams of added sugar per 100ml, arguing this would encourage drinks companies to change.
    That move, backed by the ruling PRI party that proposed the initial tax, caused a storm of protest among leftwing opposition parties and was speedily overturned in the final approval of the 2016 budget.
    One deputy said reducing the tax was a “death sentence” and the Alliance for Food Health, a campaign group that supports it, said the tax needed to be doubled, not halved and that soft drinks killed more Mexicans than organised crime."

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5593d870-97fe-11e5-9228-87e603d47bdc.html#axzz47lvX5Pu2

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    It seems creepy to me.

    Really? We have different Twitter usage patterns. You follow about 700 people, me about 4000. I visit other people's timelines when a conversation prompts it. Nothing remotely 'creepy' about that, sir.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Danielle,

    cruel

    goodbye

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Sacha,

    I visit other people's timelines when a conversation prompts it.

    So, a conversation goes on here and you casually drop by on somebody who is very pointedly not one of the 4,000 you follow on Twitter? Okay. Whatever, really.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Were I a moderator, I would delete every single comment above about people’s Twitter behaviour (and then this comment, too)… There really is such a thing as veering too far, and too unproductively, off topic.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1889 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    You may be mistaking Twitter for Facebook. Different norms.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to linger,

    When some people conduct a parallel conversation on another platform, how is that not relevant here?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Sacha,

    I think I understand how Twitter works fairly well, thank you. But I'm with linger on the usefulness of this off-shoot of the thread.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    it would help explain one participant's behaviour quite well. But who cares about that, right? Let's go on fragmenting progressive discourses. Can only end well.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Russell Brown,

    w

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Sacha,

    *headdesk* You do realise, in pursuing the personal (tone/ behaviour) over the logical (content), you are kind of supporting the substantive point that you started off opposing?

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1889 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to linger,

    we is human

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Sacha,

    all too, true...

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1889 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    I discuss things here in good faith. I don't set out to offend. What I say here is what I think. I don't say anything different anywhere else and don't play games here.

    I have come here for decades because most folks here are also intent on discussing in good faith. We may end up disagreeing but that's part of the nature of discussions. Usually the expectation is that even if we don't agree we try and understand each others point of view.

    Of late I've felt that really hasn't been as consistent as it used to be. Partly it's just change in the people here, partly it's because some folks want to play games here and in other places on the net. Too many times folks have been intent on putting words into other people's mouths to make their position more righteous, something someone here reminded me was impolite at best.

    I think that's a real pity. Making a discussion "all about me" is rarely helpful and often destructive for everyone and yet that has happened too often of late. I don't really know what can be done about it but it certainly isn't fun.

    I think it's sad that a discussion about public health has turned into personal attacks. I've said all I can on the original topic and some here disagree with me, which is fine. What isn't fine is the nastyness here and elsewhere, I don't think many folks (myself included) should be terribly proud of what has happened here today.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg,

    What about running?

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 802 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Martin Lindberg,

    seems a very good idea right now :-/

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1889 posts Report Reply

  • Rebecca Gray, in reply to linger,

    I'm doing the virtual internet equivalent of popping back into the room in order to throw you a high five for that earlier comment, and then running away.

    Wellington • Since May 2016 • 23 posts Report Reply

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