OnPoint: Election 2011: GO!
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
I'd not object to PAS fostering more conservative (if that's the word) voices. My politics are distinctly left however, I want to better understand the thinking behind some of the policies/priorities pursued by this government (and I don't subscribe to the view that they're entirely cynical)
Yes, if it bears clarifying, I've got nothing against conservatives. Some of my best friends, etc., plus as a socialist really I'm as much of a minority and every bit as much of a potential object of ridicule 'round here. But when issues arise they have to do with... I don't know, I suppose I can't find a better name for it than ideological coherence. Craig is a Tory and makes no apologies for it. If you say "I voted Tory because I knew not what they were going to do" somebody is going to go "eh what?"
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as a socialist really I’m as much of a minority and every bit as much of a potential object of ridicule
Yeah, I'm a bit to the left of most people here, I imagine, so every now and then I say something like "global maximum wage, why not?" and everyone is all "pffffffft, you're a nutbar". Yet I probably have no "ideological coherence", because I am just as much of a shallow consumerist as anyone. ("Sent from my iPad".)
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recordari, in reply to
“eh what?”
If I was in Gio’s shoes right now (bear with me here) I’d be a bit pissed off with all the fostering attention one has been getting. It was I, said the fly, who made the initial fox pass, although I must say had I known the extend too wit this would unravel, well, dot dot slash. Anyone got a time machine?
Not going back there. You can’t make me…
(“Sent from my iPad”.)
You see! Don’t even have one, eh. Maybe I’m just a liberal in demise.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Yes, if it bears clarifying, I've got nothing against conservatives. Some of my best friends, etc., plus as a socialist really I'm as much of a minority and every bit as much of a potential object of ridicule 'round here. But when issues arise they have to do with... I don't know, I suppose I can't find a better name for it than ideological coherence. Craig is a Tory and makes no apologies for it. If you say "I voted Tory because I knew not what they were going to do" somebody is going to go "eh what?"
I count wet liberals, moderate liberals, centrists, moderate Euro-style Tories, and libertarians among my inner circle of friends. Yet we never let our political beliefs get in the way of our friendship, because for the most part we have too much intellect to let it derail. And we all manage to poke fun at Tea Party nutbars while we're at it.
I do worry, though, that narrowing attention spans in wider society get exploited by bumper-sticker slogans and fancy but shallow makeovers.
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I've rarely been as moved by political speech as I was watching Metiria Turei speak today.
My father was an ordinary man from Palmerston North who wanted an ordinary life.
He wanted a decent, regular job with decent take home pay, he wanted a home where he could raise his two kids.
What he got was a lifetime of hardships and he died of a stroke at the age of 48....
If his reforms were in place when I became a solo mum, I would have been forced out to work in an unskilled, low-paying job instead of caring for my baby daughter.
With no qualifications, John Key would have considered me "unsuited" to university and I probably would never have been able to go to university let alone law school.
I've known Metiria for a few years now, so I'm hardly an unbiased observer, but it stands in contrast to every other message I've heard recently.
This could easily have gone in the PACE thread, but one post is enough.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I count wet liberals, moderate liberals, centrists, moderate Euro-style Tories, and libertarians among my inner circle of friends. Yet we never let our political beliefs get in the way of our friendship, because for the most part we have too much intellect to let it derail. And we all manage to poke fun at Tea Party nutbars while we’re at it.
This is Craig and I. We might go hammer-and-tongs online occasionally, but we are friends in the real world. Although, ironically, we only became friends via the internet.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Step Three: Buy a black hat.
Only if you're going to shout me a trip to London, and stand the price of one of these. If it's good enough for Mr Steed...
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I think there is an immediate and pressing need for a Sufjan Stevens love-thread. What a fucking amazing show.
*sulks*
(my partner has offered to take me to Elton John at the new Dunedin stadium as compensation for not seeing Sufjan. This would just add to my pain)
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
I've rarely been as moved by political speech as I was watching Metiria Turei speak today.
She is my Heroine, or something in the same vein, her honesty is addictive.
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JLM, in reply to
Best speech I've heard her give. I hope her Mum and sister were listening.
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If you want to save things like that for posteriority try THIS
Also helps those of us with slow connections (Thanks to Telecom and Steven Joyce these things will continue) -
recordari, in reply to
Only if you’re going to shout me a trip to London, and stand the price of one of these. If it’s good enough for Mr Steed…
Thanks for the hat tip. Coincidentally I wore a bowler hat to my school ball. One day, when I know you better, might even drag up a picture.
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A few things that strike me about the "left" wanting to increase the minimum wage:
1) The Labour Coalition had 9 yeasr to do it and didn't, &2) People tend to support a $15 minimum wage up to a point and that point is when they have to pay for it.
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Paul Williams, in reply to
This a very fine speech. Turei is becoming a influential parliamentarian. Like many others I'm sure, I wondered how the Greens would cope when they lost Nandor and Bradford (and Donaldson and more recently Fitzsimons too) but I've been consistently impressed by a number of current and potential Green MPs. I've worked closely with Jan Logie and have enormous respect for her intelligence and integrity (though my politics are a little different). I've had a bit to do with James Shaw too and he appears to be someone who's helping the Greens extend their appeal to a wider audience.
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Sacha, in reply to
The Labour Coalition had 9 yeasr to do it and didn't
Didn't they increase the minimum wage from about $8 in 1999 to about $12 in 2008? Can't find the data easily on the bleddy StatsNZ site.
People tend to support a $15 minimum wage up to a point and that point is when they have to pay for it.
Offset by changes in Working For Families and reduced uptake of other social services. The Nats will be changing all that anyway, along with wholesale benefit system restructuring.
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Didn't they increase the minimum wage from about $8 in 1999 to about $12 in 2008? Can't find the data easily on the bleddy StatsNZ site.
I knew I'd seen such a graph. Just found it, and it's instructive.
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DexterX, in reply to
By pay for it I mean go and purchase goods or services from a concern that pays someone more than the minimum wage in comparison to another concern that provides a similar product and employs people at the minimum wage.
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Sacha, in reply to
So you're postulating a connection between the minimum wage and the price of goods and services?
Feel free to link to some evidence about that. Preferably including the relationship with incomes that people use to buy with.
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This is a bit sad, doncha think?
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Paul Williams, in reply to
Very sad but hard to comprehend too. After yesterday praising Metiria's speech, I gotta say I think this is a very poor performance by the Greens. A really important opportunity is missed through lack of half decent planning.
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There is a terrible irony in the Greens missing out because of heavy car traffic though. Apparently the relevant person got stuck on Ti Rakau Drive.
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
How do you know who's paying their staff what? I have no idea what the rates of pay are for most of the people from whom I purchase goods and services.
As for Labour and the minimum wage, when I finished working at McD's in 1999 the adult minimum wage was $6.50. When Labour ended their third term the adult minimum wage was $12.
So, you were saying? -
Matthew Poole, in reply to
It is sad, yes.
But I got a good laugh from this, where Act's candidate claims that she's left of Jami-Lee Ross. Maybe so, but the rest of her party aren't. -
Kumara Republic, in reply to
But I got a good laugh from this, where Act's candidate claims that she's left of Jami-Lee Ross. Maybe so, but the rest of her party aren't.
And in due course, she won't leave her party... the party will probably leave her.
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DexterX, in reply to
The minimum wage in 1999 wasn't $6.50 - in 1997 it increased to around $8.40 and this was largely due to NZ First forcing the Nats to do this. This factor is one of the reasons that Shipley unseated Bolger and the coalition with NZ feel apart - the other was that the Nats wanted assets sales.
Labour hasn’t done as much as for workers in their 9 years as people blindly and willingly attribute to them. It is only now that they are out of office that they are seeking to connect with what one could regard as their base principles.
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