Legal Beagle by Graeme Edgeler

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Legal Beagle: Election 2014: The Special Votes

36 Responses

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  • Stephen Judd,

    To add to what Emma and tussock said, I was part of a team gathering advance vote data from the rolls on Friday night (with the consent of the Returning Officer, of course), as many teams from Labour and the Greens did. Certainly if there had been any shagging around with double voting in the advance period, we would know.

    Because of my professional associations I also know numerous people who are intimately involved with the electoral process, from generating the roll to tallying the provisional counts. Fraud on a scale that would make a difference would require co-operation of many people whose integrity I will absolutely swear to.

    This is simply a fantasy.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • stephen clover, in reply to Emma Hart,

    What would you do with it?

    Well if I was Cameron Slater I would use it to find out where Judith Tizard lived and post about it on Whaleoil, amirite?

    wgtn • Since Sep 2007 • 355 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    This is simply a fantasy.

    Absolutely. Even if your personation gang were very well informed as to people's non-voting plans, they still might be wrong maybe 10% of the time, so would show as double votes. Since there are very few double votes detected, there is very little personation.

    (Personation was a huge problem in places like the 19th century US, where the system lacked checks and there was a large pool of indigents happy to sell their votes, plus an electoral system organised by the people doing the vote buying.

    I think our current system strikes a sensible balance between security and ease of voting. In the UK, you can only make a regular vote at one allocated polling place, which is somewhat inconvenient).

    Also, if I was worried about anything, it would be registrations. Somebody could in theory get an electoral roll , match it with a list of eligible voters culled from Internal Affairs or NZIS (which would need corruption in one of those, but not at a very high level), and then file fake registrations using names that haven't registered. You'd need a large number of addresses to use, but I suppose you could use random ones.

    This would be easier with online voting, and in turn require a higher level of verification of identity, making registration and voting harder. Another good argument against online voting.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Dimpersonation...
    Back in the '70s, an acquaintance, disenchanted with the Muldoon Government, took it upon themselves to drive all over Canterbury on Election Day, voting at every polling booth they could find
    - under their own name!
    IIRC

    They did do time, but I can't remember if it was for that
    or something else...

    Simpler times.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7886 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    I can't remember if it was for that
    or something else

    classic

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Emma Hart,

    You really don't have a clue what you're talking about

    verily

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    Graeme- legal question: does money paid to internal pollsters have to be declared under the Electoral Finance Act? Or is that somehow not 'campaigning' but internal-business-as-usual for a party?

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2090 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    Graeme- legal question: does money paid to internal pollsters have to be declared under the Electoral Finance Act?

    No. Declarations of expenditure under the Electoral Act relate to advertising expenditure. If a focus group was involved in making ads, that might count, but general polling? No.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3202 posts Report Reply

  • Keith Locke,

    Graeme, is it possible, now the special votes are in, for you to process the statistics for us and come up with seat distribution in the following scenarios:
    1. If Hone had won his seat.
    2. If the Maori Party had won its previous seats, Tamaki Makaurau and Te Hauauru.
    3. If Hone had won his eat and the Maori Party had won its two previous seats.
    4. Peter Dunne had lost his seat to Labour.
    5. If Hone had won his seat, the Maori Party had won its two previous seats and Peter Dunne had lost his seat to Labour.

    Auckland • Since Oct 2014 • 3 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood,

    Keith, Basically nothing much changes unless Labour got a bigger share of the vote- about a 3%ish increase nationwide, at which point New Zealand First would have the balance of power. I'm talking 3%ish increase in Labour without other parties raw numbers changing, rather than a swing.- so the people who stayed home this time coming to vote.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1443 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Keith Locke,

    Keith, following answers are all as the answer would differ from the final result:

    Scenario 1: IM would get two seats, National and Greens down one each.
    Scenario 2: Maori Party gains one seat. Size of House increases to 122 (additional overhang).
    Scenario 3: IM would get two seats, National and Greens down one each. Maori Party gains one seat. Size of House increases to 122 (additional overhang).
    Scenario 4: Size of House decreases to 120 (no overhang caused by Dunne)
    Scenario 5: IM would get two seats, Maori Party gains one seat, National and Greens down one each. Size of House stays same (121), but cause of overhang changes from Dunne to Maori Party.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3202 posts Report Reply

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