Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The perils of political confidence

634 Responses

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  • Paul Williams,

    Price's analysis is very helpful and it appears the HoS may retain the right to publish without penalty if they are convinced (and can subsequently prove) the taping was not intentional. I can't unravel the facts from the various published stories, however the lack of a transcript simply fuels speculation.

    what would have happened if there were two lip readers

    I think the answer to this is clear to the extent that lip readers are "a device". If they are and they deliberately intend to intercept, then they'd commit the offence.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Ross Mason,

    Ummm…what would have happened if there were two lip readers outside the window and giving a running commentary of the two J’s chitchat??

    Apart from confirming my suspicion that Newmarket is a test site for franchising the Malebolge on Earth? Not a lot. :)

    It can be argued that it was not a private conversation , that it was in fact a very well signaled media event.

    It could also be argued that high profile journalists (expecially on TV) have no expectation of privacy, and a little light stalking after beer o'clock on a Friday night is in the public interest. I wouldn't expect anyone to find it particularly convincing, though.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    It could also be argued that high profile journalists (expecially on TV) have no expectation of privacy, and a little light stalking after beer o'clock on a Friday night is in the public interest.

    According to Price, only if they'd issued a media release inviting the media to attend their beer o'clock musings. Otherwise, no.

    I think the case law on what a reasonable expectation of privacy actually means is important to any analysis of this.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    i think it is a telling comment on the state of our media that the HoS even asked for permission to publish. What a rum state of affairs that is! Is that what our newspapers have been reduced to? Meekly asking permission from the governing party to publish a story? I would have thought a real news editor would have hung onto the tape then got a reporter to ask a question of the PM to see if he contradicted what he said in private in public. THEN you go and publish the transcript. That is what good tabloid journalism is all about.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2214 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Paul Williams,

    to the extent that lip readers are "a device"

    much like trained martial artists/boxers are a weapon, legally.
    oh they'll love that. :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19707 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    Yeah. Anyone else find it *odd* (a mis-use of the term) to talk of 'privacy' at a meeting taking place a cafe(?) open to the public, to which one has invited media galore, with the express purpose of getting publicity?
    I gather the press were ushered behind glass for the actual conversation, presumably so they were still able to record the nice pictures. That's not a level of 'privacy' I'd describe as being private.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2108 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Paul Williams,

    +1, they (the two Johnnies) can't have it both ways. And yes Rob, I agree, this is high farce.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Dugdale,

    Perhaps they should have had their little tea party in the Ureweras....

    Warkworth • Since Nov 2011 • 1 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Ben Dugdale,

    Heh, and who drinks tea nowadays at a cafe anyway, unless it is tied to a media message, too much talk of tea bagging for my liking - all too clever. Oh yeah and did the Johnnies - you know - notice that there was erm a device, sitting right on their table, for you know, looking device-like...or something.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    i think it is a telling comment on the state of our media that the HoS even asked for permission to publish. What a rum state of affairs that is! Is that what our newspapers have been reduced to? Meekly asking permission from the governing party to publish a story?

    I don't agree. I suspect the tactic was (a) get their assent or not = story (b) claim to have a right to publish = story (c) publish or not = story. Repeat = story.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Oh and after thought, why were they having a cup of tea again?

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to merc,

    you really don't want to see Banks on coffee :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19707 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Paul Williams,

    I don’t agree. I suspect the tactic was (a) get their assent or not = story (b) claim to have a right to publish = story (c) publish or not = story. Repeat = story.

    And I suspect we'll have to wait till next Sunday to find out the ending.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22830 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Sacha,

    Hah! The photo of him smiling http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/campaign-trail/5960522/Tea-tape-embarrassing-for-PM is terrifying, strange thing is that the Epsom voters I know detest the man's business dealings...honey indeed.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to merc,

    Both Banks and Brash getting away with such minimal publicity about their involvement with Hujlich is revealing too.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19707 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Sacha,

    Yup. That case is being completely swept under the carpet.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Hooton, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I agree with Danyl - if it really was a "gamechanger" etc then the editor had a responsibility to publish and be damned.

    And, Russell, the editor said it would have shared the front page with the Zac Guildford story, which was a massive story by anyone's news judgment. So, he isn't saying it falls between the cracks but that what is on the tape is of very significant news value. IF that's true, then he made a serious mistake on Saturday night.

    Auckland • Since Aug 2007 • 194 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Hooton, in reply to merc,

    Also agree that the tea was a fail. The symbolism required Banks to buy Key a triple espresso and force him to consume it.

    Auckland • Since Aug 2007 • 194 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Young,

    Has Banks been using botox? The frozen smile suggests it...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 569 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Craig Young,

    probably all that beeswax

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19707 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to Craig Young,

    Ideas, attitudes and visage frozen in the past... makes sense

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Time will tell on this one.

    Key could have made a dick move, creating a story where there was none, or it could work out - maybe the conversation was banal, and he's refusing on principle, hoping to lure opposition into focusing on it. Then he can authorize the release and it will be about Coro St, which tea to order, etc. Then once again opposition will have lost valuable time playing the man rather than the ball.

    Then again, it may be that they actually discussed something of substance. That would be a truly idiotic thing to do, quite frankly, since it's not like neither of them has ever heard of a telephone, or that they can't meet in actual private. I can't put it past either of them to be a little bit idiotic, but that would really take the cake.

    Indeed, I find the circumstances of this recording weird. It could even be a trap of their own making, to try to make the opposition sound paranoid.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10650 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    There is a drone-like earnestness that disquiets.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to BenWilson,

    maybe the conversation was banal, and he's refusing on principle, hoping to lure opposition into focusing on it. Then he can authorize the release and it will be about Coro St, which tea to order, etc. Then once again opposition will have lost valuable time playing the man rather than the ball.

    That's not likely given the HoS commentary having heard it (even allowing for the fact that they'll talk it up a little).

    Then again, it may be that they actually discussed something of substance. That would be a truly idiotic thing to do, quite frankly, since it's not like neither of them has ever heard of a telephone, or that they can't meet in actual private. I can't put it past either of them to be a little bit idiotic, but that would really take the cake.

    That's much more plausible. Possibly Key provided a frank and critical appraisal of Brash and Banks agreed?

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    since it’s not like .... they can’t meet in actual private

    I'm not sure that they can, given than John Key's movements are probably highly scrutinised at present, and a meeting in private might suggest that they really were plotting something nasty.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1447 posts Report Reply

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