Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Swine flu, terror and Susan Boyle

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  • giovanni tiso,

    On what evidence?

    Look up "Piazza Fontana" or "Bologna massacre" on Wikipedia, Grant. Which is not to say that *all* pro-lifers or *all* right wingers harbour terrorists or promote terrorist. That's a bit you've added all by yourself.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    In reality, Kansas is one of only 10 US states that requires two independent doctors to verify a prognosis of "irreparable harm" to the mother of the pregnancy proceeds.

    As opposed to our standard of "serious danger".

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1711 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    On what evidence?

    The kind that gets presented in court, Grant.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • Mikaere Curtis,

    On what evidence?

    So, you see no relationship at all between this kind of rhetoric:

    We, the undersigned, declare the justice of taking all godly action necessary to defend innocent human life including the use of force. We proclaim that whatever force is legitimate to defend the life of a born child is legitimate to defend the life of an unborn child

    and a member of the same movement engaging in a terrorist action ?

    Do you really believe that promoting extreme violence as a legitimate mechanism for political change is entirely coincidental to the murder of Dr Tiller ?

    Add in the weasel-words that fail to condemn the killing as wrong, then yeah, I think we have all the evidence we need to conclude that some quarters of the pro-life movement are functionally acting as terrorism enablers.

    Tamaki Makaurau • Since Nov 2006 • 528 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    As opposed to our standard of "serious danger".

    Quite. Although we do seem to do a better job of managing it than many other countries. Our rate of late-term (ie: at or after 21 weeks) abortions is 0.56% of all procedures -- less than half the US rate.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • JoJo,

    and ... those cases resemble the one I linked to in the original post.

    And thanks for giving that link, Russell. I've been wondering what a "late-term abortion" actually meant in terms of lateness in pregnancy and reasons for needing one. That was really helpful. And sad.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 95 posts Report Reply

  • James Liddell,

    Well it's unarguably demonstrable that they are a source of terrorists.

    On what evidence?

    A simple web search will present you with plenty of avenues through which to educate yourself. Terrorism is not just the domain of the A-rabs and the left wing revolutionaries.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2007 • 102 posts Report Reply

  • Grant Dexter,

    Grant might also wish to refer to...

    You seem desperate to talk about anything but the association you have made linking pro life groups to terrorists through the actions of George Tiller's murderer.

    Do you have any evidence that pro life groups should be regarded as terrorist threats?

    Is your case going to rely upon the actions of one man or do you see pro life groups supporting him?

    Taipei, Taiwan • Since Mar 2007 • 256 posts Report Reply

  • Grant Dexter,

    Look up "Piazza Fontana" or "Bologna massacre" on Wikipedia, Grant. Which is not to say that *all* pro-lifers or *all* right wingers harbour terrorists or promote terrorist. That's a bit you've added all by yourself.

    People and groups of people have committed crimes in the name of a pro-life agenda. Those people and groups are to be condemned. I am happy that you wish to distance yourself from the idea that such acts define all pro-lifers or all right wingers.

    Taipei, Taiwan • Since Mar 2007 • 256 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks,

    ...killing someone who is unambiguously human muct be wrong in any context - including capital punishment.......or we simply return to the debate about excuses.

    You don't really mean in any context, surely?

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1164 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    PAS is driving me to want to kill someone today.

    After I've done it, please feel free to debate amongst yourselves where or not y'all drove me to do it or not.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Grant Dexter,

    You don't really mean in any context, surely?

    She couldn't. Otherwise she would be anti abortion.

    Taipei, Taiwan • Since Mar 2007 • 256 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    This result from James' Google link is astonishing. Sixty right-wing domestic terror plots foiled between 1995 (the Oklahoma bombing) and 2005?

    These are some of the ones listed as "recent":

    May 20, 2005: Two New Jersey men, Craig Orler and Gabriel Garafa, who allegedly belong to neo-Nazi and skinhead groups, were charged with illegally selling to police informants guns and 60 pounds of urea to use in a bomb.

    Oct. 25, 2004: FBI agents in Tennessee arrested Demetrius "Van" Crocker after he allegedly tried to purchase ingredients for deadly sarin nerve gas and C-4 plastic explosives from an undercover agent. Crocker, who was involved with white supremacist groups, was charged with trying to get explosives to destroy a building and faces more than 20 years in prison.

    April 10, 2003: The FBI raided the home of William Krar, of Noonday, Texas, and discovered an arsenal of more than 500,000 rounds of ammunition, 65 pipe bombs and remote control briefcase bombs, and almost 2 pounds of sodium cyanide, enough to make a bomb that could kill everyone in a large building. Krar, reportedly associated with white supremacist groups, was sentenced to 11 years in prison for possession of a chemical weapon.

    The worrying thing is that there have been multiple reports of a resurgence of these groups this year. You have to wonder how long their sheer stupidity will continue to get them busted, but there can hardly be any case that Homeland Security should not be ramping up its surveillance of these people.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    Now, if you meant that there is no strict legal definition, or that it is a term that is, in a legal sense, difficult to define, then you might have a point, and the Wikipedia article acknowledges that.

    Except, um, the US does have a definition of terrorism, which it looks likely this meets. And there may also be RICO implications.

    They're sending in the US Marshals to protect clinics in the US apparently.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Grant Dexter,

    You cannot seriously be putting skinheads and nazis in the same boat as pro life groups, can you?

    Taipei, Taiwan • Since Mar 2007 • 256 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    I really don't see watching reality TV as being very different from watching a sports telecast.

    Not that I watch either, (with the exception being the F A Cup on Sunday) one similarity in both could be that anyone partaking in these programmes can end up in a private clinic.The slight difference with sport could be, the team spirit does not allow one to suffer alone at the end of the game. What I find so distasteful, is the "Lord of the Flies" syndrome that emerges and often is promoted, even if just by advertising the show. Still, each to their own.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I am happy that you wish to distance yourself from the idea that such acts define all pro-lifers or all right wingers.

    As a series of people have pointed out to you Grant, you are the only one who has raised such an argument. It you don't desist from this ridiculous, bad-faith line of argument, I will ban you as a troll.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • ScottY,

    Kyle, I may join you. Wait, doesn't that make us terrorists if there's more than one of us?

    West • Since Feb 2009 • 794 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks,

    I am happy that you wish to distance yourself from the idea that such acts define all pro-lifers or all right wingers.

    Where was that idea put forward?

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1164 posts Report Reply

  • LegBreak,

    Scott / Kyle

    Terrorists.

    One thing surprises me though; the link between Pro-life and right wing.

    I’d have thought the abortion divide would be more along religious than political lines.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1162 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    You cannot seriously be putting skinheads and nazis in the same boat as pro life groups, can you?

    Only if its on fire.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    (like)

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Grant Dexter,

    As a series of people have pointed out to you Grant, you are the only one who has raised such an argument.

    I object to the association you draw between terrorism and pro life groups who have condemned Tiller's murderer. If you're willing to concede that the actions of one man in no way reflect upon the integrity of pro life groups then I have no quarrel.

    It you don't desist from the ridiculous, bad-faith line or argument, I will ban you as a troll.

    Aw, why would you do that? The good people of a well renowned charity will be missing out on so much.

    Taipei, Taiwan • Since Mar 2007 • 256 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    You cannot seriously be putting skinheads and nazis in the same boat as pro life groups, can you?

    Yes, in numerous cases, I would.

    Why don't you bugger off and annoy some other blog, Grant.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2537 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Sorry Grant, your argument is absurd and inconsistent and while it might make sense to you, it doesn't to anyone else.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

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