Hard News by Russell Brown

Read Post

Hard News: Sorting out our thinking on drugs

226 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 6 7 8 9 10 Newer→ Last

  • debunk,

    Steven
    I think the whole situation is a mess and if any of these products are proved "safe" the retail outlets should not have been set up first ..as a sole trader think it's unfair for small businesses for starters to be encouraged to get stock (however toxic it may or may not be), rent premises etc and then be closed down on medical whim. Also unfair on consumers because product seems to be very addictive and then it could be cut off on medical/Ministry whim. Whole situation is poorly managed, and is going to cost taxpayers/health system big time ..I see them as shops selling product and not "dispensaries because like mental health don't see advantage in medicalising the situation. Favour US moves myself (and Australian states like ACT where can grow a couple of plants..visited a friend and long time cannabis consumer there doing just that very happily in the suburbs). Maybe NGO like Drug Foundation could set up some sort of specialised drop in centres away from A&E which suspect make stress worse ..tho not familiar with what services they offer ..have helped local ACC claimants in the past for a GP and can see claims coming up with side effects .. tho not for me to deal with..ACC very tricky these days.

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to debunk,

    There is no American system. The state of California has a “medical” marijuana system. What this means is that using marijuana is legal but it’s not legal to use it in public places, and you need a medical certificate. I think that is a good system. It means that in reality, any adult who wants to smoke dope can. But the exotic glamor is taken out of it. homeless people break the smoking in public rule, more educated, high functioning people tend to abide by the rules. So it might be less appealing to children.

    Colorado, has a different system that we are yet to see unfold. It might go down the same path that our alcohol laws have. Advertising it will make you into something you are never going to be if you use to much of the product.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • debunk, in reply to steven crawford,

    Just referring to overdue change in attitude towards cannabis in the US ..will broaden and has to be an improvement!

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    perhaps recreation is
    becoming 'wreck creation'
    and dispensary leads
    to 'dissed penury' ?

    ...but I'm only exploiting words
    not people's dreams/fears...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7944 posts Report Reply

  • debunk, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    and Legal High dispensaries leading to 'diss order' and 'dis tress' ?

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Beta-blockers are a largely obsolete treatment for ordinary hypertension – only indicated for angina risk, nowadays.

    No, lots of people are on two-factor treatments for hypertension -- an ACE inhibitor and a beta blocker.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22834 posts Report Reply

  • Virginia Brooks,

    Are you diss-ing the situation?

    Since Jun 2008 • 43 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to steven crawford,

    Colorado, has a different system that we are yet to see unfold. It might go down the same path that our alcohol laws have. Advertising it will make you into something you are never going to be if you use to much of the product.

    Colorado's up and running. I wrote a feature article about Colorado and Washington State's move to legalisation here. Colorado has the advantage of having already had a very sophisticated system for managing medical marijuana -- there's a bar code for every seedling.

    California's med-pot system is all but legalisation -- it's very loose. I wouldn't be comfortable with quite the degree of commercialisation we're now seeing in Colorado and Washington.

    The interesting thing is that the Psychoactive Substances Act is in a number of ways quite similar to the systems in those states. Most of what you'd need for the regulated sale of cannabis is in it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22834 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to debunk,

    Follow the USA re marijuana, as I said earlier and for stimulants we already have lots of Ritalin available on prescription (which students in UK are using for supposed cognitive enhancement as well as stimulant effect)

    Ritalin's quite a popular party drug here too. It makes far more sense to use it than to mess about with pills and powders of unknown providence.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22834 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Russell Brown,

    ...of course Colorado had Hunter S. Thompson to push the envelope on extreme use - which must have helped skew data and perceptions (literally in his case) and shift the centre of opinions past a tipping point...

    interestingly, well cryptically,
    Gonzo also shows NZ in the Goo...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7944 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Russell Brown,

    up all night to get lucky...?

    ...and powders of unknown providence.

    I'd heard that God has amazingly protective pow(d)ers!

    But no one knows their provenance either!

    :- )

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7944 posts Report Reply

  • Virginia Brooks,

    A data base likes Ramsey's is vital for the information it holds.
    The thing is, synthetics are NOT like the old school illicit drugs we grew up with. They represent a cultural shift as much as a pharmacological shift, in both the manufacturing and using.
    Most synthetics are manufactured in the third world. Apart from different manufacturing standards, substances like waste chemicals are used because they are cheap and plentiful. Chemicals going into blends are chosen because they are cheap and will 'do the job'.
    This why synthetics are cheap to buy. They are produced cheaply in the third world. They come from the same thinking that puts melamine in milk and ethanol in cocktails (as in the cases in Bali, which probably only came to our attention because westerners got hurt).
    Newsflash: there is a lot of poverty out there and humans - being the ever creative beings we are - find ways around it.
    And synthetics are a producers cash cow dream - no boring manufacturing standards to meet! No come-back from adversely affected customers. No complaints from other countries govts (as with the milk scandal) because its all black market - and yes, no taxes to pay.
    And an ever-increasing market demand from westerners - many of whom are paradoxically -' third world' themselves, because they don't have jobs (and never will), they are locked out of owning both the necessary and pretty things people with money have. Synthetics are the new two-dollar shop.
    Then there are the monied and even wealthy customers who - are habituated users or just like using - want to try the new thing, be in on the trend - want variety - a walk on the wild side - drugs that don't show up in workplace drug tests - drugs that don't involve a trip to the tinny house or old school dealers -
    ...tinny house.. what's that's?

    Substances can be found in synthetics that no western doctor would expect to find in his wildest dreams. The value of a data base like Ramsey's is that it provides an on-going archive of chemicals and effects. His findings highlight the need for such a data base and may provide a way to contribute to it / start building a local database.

    One of the effect of the synthetic LSD my son was using was blisters on the roof of his mouth (where he held it to dissolve). He wouldn't go to the doctors to get them treated. All I could do was wait and see if he got physically ill enough to be admitted to hospital (from damage I couldn't see) - or if he stopped eating & drinking because the blisters had spread down his digestive tract.

    Should our doctors have access to information that allows them to known what is in synthetic blends? I would argue yes.

    Since Jun 2008 • 43 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to debunk,

    Probably contrary to the Act assuring competence and ethical behaviour by registered health professionals ..(can’t recall name of it)..do no harm etc

    Do you mean the hippocratic Oath? The dispensaries could be at places like Methadone clinics or Needle exchanges or Pharmacies. These places could better advise of side effects. Do the synthetics have side effects written on the packaging at all or is it just the name of said product that is supposed to indicate the type of buzz? Are there any forums of users of the synthetics and what they think of them?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Russell Brown,

    California’s med-pot system is all but legalisation – it’s very loose. I wouldn’t be comfortable with quite the degree of commercialisation we’re now seeing in Colorado and Washington.

    I chatted with a group of hippies in Sausalito as they past a pipe among themselves. It reminded me of great barrier island twenty five years ago. but the hippies where all in there sixties, not there forties. I was doing a bit of amateur anthology.

    What really interested me most was how unregulated house-boating is there, compared to here. Homeless people further down the ladder; people who live in cars and vans, also have less regulations imposed. And people who carry there kit and caboodle around in shopping karts are right out there doing it (in huge numbers) they seem to accepted as valid members of the community, as opposed to being shunned. I got the impression that keeping your physiological shit together in San Francisco was a good idea, so I stay clean and sober.But if you did have a strong boat, a good mooring and Maybe a war pension, kicking back and tuning in could be sustainable.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to steven crawford,

    The word I was looking for is ethnography, not anthology.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Virginia Brooks,

    They come from the same thinking that puts melamine in milk and ethanol in cocktails (as in the cases in Bali, which probably only came to our attention because westerners got hurt).

    Ethanol is supposed to be in your cocktails. It's methanol (and presumably other alcohols, though methanol seems to be the most common cause of alcohol-other-than-ethanol related trouble) you don't want and that's caused the trouble in Bali and many other places. And yes, the fact that (pale skinned) Westerners got hurt explains a lot of the Western press coverage, but you don't have to look too hard to find news of tainted fake/cheap/home brew booze causing mass poisonings, often among poorer local consumers.

    But what's with the hating on the Third World? How is this any different to your iPads and other fancy gadgetry? No First World demand, no Third World production. And "waste chemicals" (would you prefer them to be dumped?), "different manufacturing standards" (really? Or First World producers taking advantage of different enforcement regimes?) and whatnot.... Your previous comments have been useful and informative, but this one carries a whiff of the nastier side of Orientalism. I hope I'm misunderstanding you.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • debunk, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    No, I am referring to the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Act 2003 which covers a much wider range of "practitioners" than doctors.

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to debunk,

    I just want to pull you up on what you said early about methadone being a treatment. Did you realize that Methadone is a synthetic heroin type of thing and that it does not cure addiction?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    though methanol seems to be the most common cause of alcohol-other-than-ethanol related trouble

    Yes, it's usually present in distilled alcohol (because it was present in the original base, whatever that was), and can be separated somewhat by taking the very first small amount of distillate and keeping it separately. The methanol evaporates at a lower temperature. People who home-still call this the "heads". Don't drink the heads! It's meths! I think most of them throw it away, but it could be tempting to keep and easily mistaken for ethyl alcohol.

    But you should also know that this methanol is present in almost all non-distilled alcohol. It's just in a very low concentration. And that's what the toxicity issue around alcohol come down to, concentration. The small amount of methanol in your beer won't do you any harm. But if you drink the first 50ml off your still batch, you'll poison yourself. Similarly, if you distilled 90% pure ethanol, achievable by re-distilling the distillate, maybe even more than once, you'll have something that is only safe to drink if you water it down substantially. And that is how people get poisoned with ethanol.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10653 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to BenWilson,

    if you distilled 90% pure ethanol

    Apparently quite common in Norway, or at least that small corner of Norway in which I spent the summer of 2000. And yes, only drunk watered down, though often with cider.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to BenWilson,

    Too late for the edit: Anyway, it was my impression that poisonings from dodgy booze are more often from methanol contamination than excess ethanol.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • debunk, in reply to steven crawford,

    Yes Stephen! Aware of that. But also used as a pain medication (as morphine is) as recent home death in Whanganui showed ..with patient given this in hospital by "pain specialist" on top of an assortment of different atypical antipsychotics and off label recent epilepsy drugs now being experiented with for head injuries, pain etc. Coroner found it "okay" but polypharmacy is rife and untoward effects largely not documented, This was in the MSM not long ago.

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • debunk, in reply to debunk,

    Re clinical use of methadone for pain relief

    "Dead woman was on ccktail of drugs - coroner"

    www.stuff.co.nz/national/9453769/Dead-woman-was-on-cocktail-of-drugs-coroner

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • debunk,

    Methadone 10mg twice a day
    Gabapentin - offlabel antiepileptic used for pain relief
    Two anti-psychotic medications (doesn't say which)
    An antidepressant - doesn't say which

    Toxic mixture?

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • debunk,

    www.nzherald.co.nz/news/print.cfm?/objectid=11167932

    "Doctors cleared over drug death" listing

    amytryptyline
    cyclizine
    olanzapine
    gabapentin
    quietapine
    methadone

    All of these described well in Wikipedia so far as I recall..

    New Zealand • Since Aug 2012 • 105 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 6 7 8 9 10 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.