Hard News: So far from trivial
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3410,
Robbery, since you're "a facts kinda guy", could you at least get the woman's name right.
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To restate a point from somewhere up thread.
Every time the media prints a little bit more detail it invades the privacy of Veitch's victim, it adds to her pain and, we could comfortably assume, her shame and humiliation.
Every time we sit here trying to figure out what happened to her, how long she lay in pain, how much of her body was how broken, how emotionally shattered she must be we invade her privacy, we add to her pain, shame and humiliation.
In my opinion we should leave the detail alone, we should leave her what privacy she has, and the self respect and self confidence she has rebuilt since she was attacked.
We don't need to know the detail, that's what the justice system is for
The thing I can most honestly offer her is the hope that if she ever walks down the same street as me I won't recognise her, that she won't see pity or prurient interest in my eyes.
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but I think Dyan is right about your style of argument.
thanks for the critique russell but the person I was disagreeing with (andrew) and I came to an agreement all by ourselves.
It's annoying, but ultimately irrelevant to the topic being discussed.
so is wedding dresses and tits on news readers but I didn't hear you jumping in there either. irrelevant to you is relevant to someone else.
as far as your critique on my performance in the music thread goes since I have no idea who you are until I learn more about your involvement and knowledge on it I'll just assume you didn't understand what I was saying, mostly I was debating with simon, who's experience knowledge and expertise I respect, and that goes two ways, (we do know each other outside of here, we have the same job for almost the same amount of time).as far as this thread has gone I've stayed on topic and avoided the temptation to take the piss the oh so many times it has come up.
I'm not constructing an argument, i'm participating in a discussion and I have not at any time in this thread felt my points (or 'arguments' as you put it) has been overlooked, quite the opposite, I think a few people have made good points off my comments so I'm not trying to derail anything.
now regarding the topic being discussed if you could just outline exactly what that is and give us guidelines on appropriate ways to discuss it I'm sure I can try and fit better into your plan for living.
said with a smile, it's the internet, its not like I'm really bothered or offended by your comments. friends?
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could you at least get the woman's name right.
fair point,
Kristin Dunne-Powell
people with double barrel names are just greedy.
I was lazy and spelling the one I could remember. I apologise.
I make no excuses, but..... the heater made me sleepy? -
They've been in photographs.
links?
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__They've been in photographs.__
links?
I'm happy to take Russell's word for it.
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I'm happy to take Russell's word for it.
but that would be nothing to do with the position of perceived power jill mentioned earlier?
anyone would think it was a crime to check detail and strive to be well informed. I wish I had the trust and respect you have for authority figures.ok, think its time I left you to it. 41 pages and a lot of it isn't mine. guess there are some issues that people are thinking about that aren't held in the original post or in press releases and un named source reports.
I'll keep my eyes peeled for music and media related topics though. There's no way I'm going to let misguided statements go unchallenged, should anyone make them of course.
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In my opinion we should leave the detail alone, we should leave her what privacy she has, and the self respect and self confidence she has rebuilt since she was attacked.
Too late Anita.I would have been quite happy 41 pages back but it got to the point where I jumped in (somewhere about pg 26) because it started to get my attention when the story grew.But with all due respect for Kristin, I have tried not to second guess her. Also this story originally suggested that "the rumour" had been circulating for the previous year, so in our little country, there is no privacy.But having said that, I don't think of Kristin as humiliated, unconfident, lacking respect . I would (and do) like to think of her as strong, determined, and capable of deciding what was best for her, and ,having been employed by TVNZ, has a bloody good idea of the shit that was gonna hit the fan when it came out. She is definitely strong and good on her.
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anyone would think it was a crime to check detail and strive to be well informed
I have a distinct feeling that even if you were living in the toe of Veitch's shoe while the kicking was administered, you'd find some way to nitpick this issue...
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Crikey, you've added another five pages since I left. There's a lot of talking past going on, so I'd like to suggest everyone re-read Stephen's wise point about that - http://publicaddress.net/system/topic,1214,hard_news_so_far_from_trivial.sm?p=58970#post58970
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lacking respect .
should have been lacking self respect.
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I've been tramping in the Pureora Forest and the tuis were making a heck of a racket. The whirr of wings, the chortles, squawks, chimes and whistles ... bit like PA really.
And what's trolling and if it's what I think it is I'm puzzled. I thought Robbery was adding a different note of some value and while Stephens' point is very clever, I don't quite see it as unchallengeable.
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And in line with St ephen's insights, this recent gem from Robbery...
we are still the emotive and instinctive creatures we chose not to see ourselves as (thinking rational beings all of us, I think not).
Rob, I'm happy to be both emotive and instinctive. If you're not, then that's your problem to deal with. You won't be getting away with making it mine, especially when the topic is so obviously emotive in nature. Show some respect for the different forms of knowledge expressed here.
it's the internet, its not like I'm really bothered or offended by your comments.
It's hardly "courageous" to keep trying to sideline the conversation if you don't care what others think anyway. Bravery involves a bit more investment than that.
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Cecelia, I'd say it was "of some value" if it wasn't just the same point repeated over and over again.
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What a Whooper of a thread ………………
I don’t think some of the various debates here at PA over the pages have shown posters attitudes towards gender and power in relationships ………….I’d say its been more revealing about our attitudes towards violence.
One poster expressed the opinion that violence administered in a mafia beating is worse than the same violence from a persons family/partner ………………… I find the violence from the partner worse ………….. home and family should be the safest sanctuary of all. …… whereas thinking family violence is somehow more benign seems to be going along the “just a domestic” path………………
I believe a lot of the violence that ends up on our streets is the overflow from what people have learned and experienced in their homes.
I also feel we have glossed over the role alcohol plays in brutal behavior all around the country. I think it was Russell who posted that alcohol is no excuse and he’s right to a point and I presume as a drinker that he ( like me ) does not turn into a “nasty drunk” or get into confrontations.
However some people DO seem to suffer from some type of alcohol psychosis and I have seen the enraged maddened reptile eyes of a person who is lost in a alcohol haze of hate.
It’s a very powerful drug and some people should never touch the stuff ……….
In yesterdays Dompost there was a story in which it was reported that half of all facial surgery repairing trauma in NZ was the result of young males beating each other while drinking. It is costing the health service hundreds of millions of dollars in health care each year.
Booze culture = violence culture
And although I think veitch was “tired and emotional “ when he dished out his beating his behavior afterwards has been no different than any other criminal trying to get away with their crime.
There was a little discussion earlier in this thread about language and how it is or can be used against woman or in a sexist way, as a “ dirty druggie “ I fully get the point .
I’d add our country’s language and phrasing towards violence is always glossed over and euphemized.
Example: knocked a person unconscious ………………….a knock sounds like an accident, punched or kicked someone unconscious is what really happens when someone is “knocked unconscious”.
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Sacha Danielle and others: I have read many of the Posts since Monday. I suspect that 70% of them are made by people like you who have endlessly repeated the same mantra, that the man is nasty, horrible despicable etc etc etc etc. That 70% includes endless speculations on what might be deduced from the scant information as long is it supports that the man is etcetc. Ad nauseum. You have as a group contributed nothing to the original post of Russel Brown's. The few who have attempted to look at the bigger picture have been ridiculed by you and others. It looks to me like a bunch of hyenas smelling badly as they circle and pick at the bones of a smelly corpse.
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Tigger, trust your common sense. Check Willie Jackson on Close Up last night for instance - not much indecision there.
And I really don't know what you think "the bigger picture" means, given that it's Rob and others trying to nitpick detail in a way that is unfortunately very familiar to those who deal with family violence. Anyway, the thread speaks for itself by now. I'm happy to leave it that way.
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name the "and others" please.
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............... A quick bit of reflection has me amending the dompost story to include females ( they just stated males ) amongst those requiring facial repairing surgery as the result of alcohol fueled assaults.
Because obviously males dont just dish it out to other males
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......... that man veitch obviously is a mean nasty piece of work.
Nice people dont break bones on other people in anger.
Or do we believe his image as opposed to the reality of what he did and what sort of person does that?
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I don't much like his image either nz native but that was a matter of taste really. What's he's been revealed to have done isn't really up for taste awards. It's sickening in any sane persons eyes.
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Yamis: If the cap fits wear it.
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And what, pray, is your contribution to this discussion, Tigger? To pop on towards the end, and diss the active participants? Class.
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name the "and others" please.
Sorry, Yamis, I'm tired. Was actually thinking mainly of Ian. I do respect those who can make a robust argument, take something on board and then move on.
I've accepted a valid point about fairness of process has been made, although I've been clear thorughout that my own position is we don't need all the information before knowing what is right and wrong, but we do need to understand the context.
Some of the other repetitive stuff just comes across as someone mentioned earlier today as a bit icky. Mainly it sounds like the usual lines trotted out by those trying to defend men who have been violent against women. Not ok. I don't need all the photos with the labels on the back to understand that.
Time for a lie down.
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Yamis: If the cap fits wear it.
I was 'talking' to Sacha sorry Tigger. I just noticed the "and others" in your post as well.
There's no need to be snide though.
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