Hard News: Poor Choices
241 Responses
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Kracklite, in reply to
The analogy for depression I've used often is riding a bicycle with skewed handlebars. You can ride in a straight line, but every yard requires a conscious effort to aim out of the gutter. Give up for a moment and that's where you end up. Thankfully I've never seriously contemplated suicide, but I can understand that those who have committed suicide gave up not because of their depression in one instant, but because of their exhaustion with continually fighting against that skew.
Hill-Cone's column is simply incredible, opportunistic narcissism. I've no sympathy for her at all.
And the Herald, after Bob Jones bragged of driving a man to suicide says that there is something very ugly infecting the Herald editorship.
(Sorry, suicide is a trigger issue with me. Seen too much of it)
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nzlemming, in reply to
Without meaning to offend, those people who dismiss twitter as a useless toy for children are doing it wrong.
Yes, indeed. "The tools are broken!" just means one hasn't learned to use them.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
You stairing at me...?
The community that writes together….
Oh, you mean them Writes of Passage,
more than a riposte repository for l'esprit d'escalier...(be careful two writes can make a wrong!)
;- ) -
Russell Brown, in reply to
I’m pretty sure I know who at least one of them was and I think I might know someone who might still have the files – I’ll do some asking around tomorrow when my eyes go fuzzy from hideous excel spreadsheets
Oh! Please do. I have asked around in the past. I would dearly love to properly republish extracts.
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nzlemming, in reply to
The analogy for depression I’ve used often is riding a bicycle with skewed handlebars. You can ride in a straight line, but every yard requires a conscious effort to aim out of the gutter. Give up for a moment and that’s where you end up. Thankfully I’ve never seriously contemplated suicide, but I can understand that those who have committed suicide gave up not because of their depression in one instant, but because of their exhaustion with continually fighting against that skew.
Love this! Okay to quote it in a different group I'm part of?
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Russell Brown, in reply to
And well yes, I can see how twitter could be a good platform for people who like to write. I just don’t write so good so it’s not my gig.
No, it wouldn’t suit you in that respect. It does reward people who write easily and with economy. I know journalists whose skills are rather exposed in that respect.
Otoh, as Sacha points out, it’s pretty good just to read if you follow people you’re interested in.
Maybe you could work your way up to one zinger a day :-)
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
Maybe you could work your way up to one zinger a day :-)
That was me for like two years.
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Can we please make this thread a discussion about the real issue instead of etiquette?
I'm sorry if that's a threadjack, but I've lost and almost lost loved ones to suicide and I really feel that we need to look at how that is dealt with and what support can be given. Talk about twitter seems offensively trivial in this context.
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nzlemming, in reply to
just thought I’d post this piece I wrote about living with depression and being suicidal.
So many echos. I still marvel that I hit 53 this year. If there's one thing I could say to the never-depressed: don't try something that will help us all; try to help each of us individually, because we all do it differently, will all be helped differently or not, regardless of your good intentions.
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Jack Cottrell, in reply to
Oh, I definitely agree with that, and I love your analogy. In my experience, and I've seen some data that suggests the same*, the decision and the action are paired very closely. You're exhausted fighting the skew and then something comes and knocks you down and you decide you just can't get up.
And I know what you mean about triggering. it's been very hard working in media and living with depression this week.
*can give citations, but won't right now because Kracklite probably doesn't need to be reading more suicide-discussion. Though they should feel free to yell at me if they find this patronising.
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Kracklite, in reply to
No, I'm not going to yell at you; instead I thank you.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
“The tools are broken!” just means one hasn’t learned to use them.
So what I get from people’s perspective on here is the Twitter has many interpretations, uses, problems, and can be almost addictive. Plus, as a tool in relative infancy, the problems are now coming to light that users feel warrants some sort of control. With such widespread contact with people, perhaps it needs personal scrutiny that helps those who have problems with others on it. Maybe some sort of plan could be devised amongst yourselves to encourage others to join in and start by tweeting to others the rules in the plan. Pyramid like, because that is how I visualise it.
I also note to myself ,it really isn’t my cuppa. I like that you all want to stay connected though. put you at the forefront of whats happening next. My limited time at the mo ( probably pleases many :) meant I only just got to read David’s fine piece of writing. I like that it’s the first thing I’ve read about CD (although I have read here) and will probably be the last but it was a worthwhile read. He obviously knew her well and wrote of her warmly and honestly. That’s the sort of thing I can read about suicide. Someone who knows them can share their love for a person, purely.
Oh shit, sorry kracklite, didn't mean to fuk up. -
Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
What's a zinger?
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and then there is this:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11210375 -
Kracklite, in reply to
Obscene. Growing older, self-mutilation... and now partying and childlessness. Is there no depth to which The Herald won't sink?
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Jack Cottrell, in reply to
Gah. There's such a nugget of a good idea and of truth in there "It is impossible to remain in the limerence of youth and yet we seem to demand it from our female celebrities" But it just comes out as more of the same thing women always hear "You won't be fulfilled unless you have BABIES!"
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This is after The Herald published a column in which Bob Jones bragged of driving someone to suicide as click bait and to get advertising revenue.
It isn't just a rag, it isn't just hypocritical, it isn't just cynical; it is inhuman.
Anyone who gives them money by buying copies or purchasing advertising is complicit.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I think it is a cup of herb tea.
Boom! That's a zinger.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Obscene. Growing older, self-mutilation… and now partying and childlessness. Is there no depth to which The Herald won’t sink?
The one in the middle was Rosemary McLeod in the Dom Post. I don’t think you can pin this one on the papers involved – columnists generally do get to write what they want to write. But yeah, it’s pretty weird.
I kicked around in the same scene as Grimshaw describes, and her descriptions of it are very good. But then there’s her put-down of Dawson as “ordinary” (she pretty clearly wasn’t) and the monumental fits of judgement that follow.
It’s also particularly insensitive in light of the fact that Dawson aborted a pregnancy in 1999, under pressure from her husband, Olympic swimmer Scott Miller, and his coaches. I only mention this because it’s in her autobiography and has been widely reported for years.
Grimshaw effectively lecturing David Herkt for not settling down and starting a family, on the other hand, is just silly.
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Virginia Brooks, in reply to
Yowzah.
In response to the idea floated in the herald column that being a parent magically protects you from suicidal behaviour or poor life style choices....buzzzzzzzzzz (imagine wheel of fortune type of buzzing sound) WRONG.
Parents do suicide. Anyone can. Suicidal behaviour and depression are egalitarian / equal opportunity. You can be the worlds best parent and love your children deeply but still choose to end your own life. It happens.
What's with the self righteous judgement against people who suicide?
A way to distance oneself from a behaviour that's part of all of us, a way to put the dark 'out there'. -
Going full circle now and coming back to DHC:
I like something she wrote in an earlier column - an observation on the 'Just world phenomenon' : the tendency of some people (often right wingers) to believe that the world is just and therefore people get what they deserve.
For a 'just world' theorist, some one who makes (sniff) 'inappropriate life choices' gets what they deserve. -
Meaning CD did it to herself, literally and figuratively.
And the above sniff is tounge in cheek. I hate the black and white simplicity of just world theory. -
Richard Aston, in reply to
love collaborative creativity. I suppose we could use PAS to do a ‘paragraph at a time’ story. The only problem might be people making additions at the same time
I am up for that emma, could be a wild ride but a a good one.
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Virginia Brooks, in reply to
What I'm saying is the herald column is a classic piece of 'just world' theorising. Scary.
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Okay, we’re through the looking glass.
Julie Burchill has written a column inspired by Charlotte Dawson’s death.
Because we really haven’t had enough rambling, narcissistic columns on this topic.
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