Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Metiria's Problem

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  • Sacha, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    You can proclaim all you like that "it was always going to be about her" but that is just accepting the Garners and Gowers as normal and right.

    'Normal' yes, right no. The parlous current state of our political media was a known quantity before this whole palaver started.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Trevor Nicholls, in reply to steven crawford,

    Needing to commit benefit fraud to “feed a baby”, is complete bullshit.

    This is just the John Key grew up in a state house and made millions and became PM so anyone can do it argument, really.

    Wellington, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to izogi,

    Sure is - excellent reporting - not hard to do... getting out into the real world and talking to real people, is it? MSM so angers me - this is what all NZers need to see on the 6 o'clock news as the headline story.

    There but before the grace of God, go I.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    What you seem to be saying is the ’91 benefit cuts had no impact on poverty

    I’m not saying that. I’m saying it’s magnitudes more difficult to rent an accomodation now. A 20 percent rise in benefit isn’t as flash as it sounds. It’s a sticking plaster. Treating people who need financial help with dignity will make a difference, big high five. If the Greens have ever really been truly interested in the plight of the underclass, you would think they would have been making a bit more noise about it over the last few years, wouldn’t you? Becouse it’s been a serious problem since way back when the co-leader had to tell porkys to Winz.

    It was the Mana party that did all the campaigning about poverty until they lost there voice. I guess the slums aren’t the Greens demographic has a lot of experience in. Poverty New Zealand style, is actually really dirty like warehouse plastic. The Greens are clean like a Nisan leaf driving thru Cornwall park. I don’t feel confordent in the Green Party’s ability to really do a hell of a lot to improve our social inequities problem. This particular anti poverty campaign they are dabbling with - It’s right up there with saving the world buy taking your own paper bag to the supermarket.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Just to say that (as noted previously) I was toying with the idea of voting for TOP

    I've been toying with the idea of TOP, and I often sympathise with or at least tolerate what the likes of Gareth Morgan have to say about things. But today I was casually browsing FB and saw Gareth saying this on Turei, Graham and Clendon (FB link):

    We've just seen that with Metirira who is saying that rorting the benefit system is ok because beneficiaries are so hard done by.

    Well I'm sorry, because we live in a democracy and there are ways to go about fixing the system faults in our social policy - namely political activism - illegal behaviour is not ok. Metirira's prescription for people to rort the system is simply wrong.

    As far as I can tell he's just making stuff up about what she's said, as are so many others, and it really put me off him.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to izogi,

    As far as I can tell he’s just making stuff up...

    Well he definitely made up a novel spelling of Metiria's name.
    Not a details person I guess...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7886 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to steven crawford,

    Sounds like you may need to actually read their policy: https://www.greens.org.nz/policy/social-policies/mending-safety-net

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to izogi,

    the likes of Gareth Morgan

    In the mid-90s I met a prosperous though mildly malcontented tradie who told me that voting was a waste of time. What the country needed was "the Warehouse guy telling us what to do". Around a decade later when our paths crossed again I asked if he still felt that way. He informed me that my recollection was wrong, what he'd advocated, and still stood by, was having "the TradeMe guy" run things.

    While I was tempted to argue that TradeMe hadn't been around at the time of our earlier meeting I decided that it was better to accept nature's jewels as they were offered. If we meet again I might ask if he'd settle for the TradeMe guy's dad.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Sacha,

    Sounds like you may need to actually read their policy:

    Well du, that's how I found out about there grand plan is to tweak the numbers a wee bit.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • Trevor Nicholls,

    Poverty *is* a green issue because the more you increase the inequalities in the economy the less sustainable it is.

    Wellington, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to steven crawford,

    Well yeah. People will still have to justify themselves to Winz, the money will just be a bit more generous, until National get back in and quietly erode it back.

    That's the thing that attracted me about TOP - their UBI policy gets rid of all that (it basically removes unemployment as a concept) and reversing it would become a big hurdle for a future government.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Sacha,

    This, the Green housing policy. That’s something in conjunction with the raising incomes policy’s. They say they will help ten thousand low income people into there own place over a ten year period.

    Ten thousand! Over ten years! That looks impressive! like a massively good thing!

    But why not just talk about regulating the “housing market” so that low income people can afford to buy or rent a place to call home, without needing to present a community services, stigma card, without needing to get the upgrade to supplement plus and the family pack?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Well yeah. People will still have to justify themselves to Winz, the money will just be a bit more generous, until National get back in and quietly erode it back.

    The Greens are perfectly capable of introducing complence and admin cost all over the place, which achieve the same net outcome. I remember one of the Green MPs threatening to introduce boat registrations and licensing, just becouse. And I’ve heard all sorts of cosmic ideas about everyone driving brand spanking new cars, or be penalised and humiliated into the gutter by admin paper.

    PS: I might have over looked some of the more creative ideas coming out of Green HQ:-)

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    That's the thing that attracted me about TOP - their UBI policy gets rid of all that (it basically removes unemployment as a concept) and reversing it would become a big hurdle for a future government.

    I love the concept of a UBI. TOP's UBI is impossible to live on, and would be up to a 30% income cut for some beneficiaries.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell, in reply to steven crawford,

    . sorry .

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2090 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Yeah. It's a strange mix of social liberal 'evidence-based' and radical market. I like some of it, but other bits are ultra-dry market economics.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2090 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    You must have missed Sue Bradford’s 10 odd years in the party

    No, I actually noticed Sue Bradford.

    The Green Party installed Materia Turei as there co-leader rather than Sue Bradford, who had been seriously working on social welfare. It’s anyone guess why that happened. I guess, they felt like haveing a “rebrand”.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    It's a strange mix of social liberal 'evidence-based' and radical market.

    It seems to be a feature of the petty personality cults that NZ politics throws up. Like Greg O'Connor, whose "progressive" attitude on drug law reform is touted as so compelling that we're encouraged to forget that given the chance he'd arm the police tomorrow.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    sorry

    Yes, well I think I had better stop ranting about the Green Party, since dispite vigorously pointing out there shortcomings, I also respect a lot of what they do. I have voted Greens several times.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to steven crawford,

    The Green Party installed Materia Turei as there co-leader rather than Sue Bradford, who had been seriously working on social welfare. It’s anyone guess why that happened. I guess, they felt like haveing a “rebrand”.

    "In 2009 Sue Bradford ran unsuccessfully against Metiria Turei to replace Jeanette Fitzsimons for the co-leadership of the Green Party. On 25 September 2009, Bradford announced her intention to resign as a Member of Parliament in late October, citing her disappointment at the loss and wish to take new directions,"

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to izogi,

    As far as I've been able to tell, Labour's been losing support to the Green Party on one side, but also to the likes of Nat/NZF because those people are terrified of the Green Party having too much influence on Labour.

    What do swing voters fear most from a Govt with the Greens in it? Rubbish mountains & unburied corpses? Losing their homes to interest rates? Losing their homes to "Maori radicals"? Car bans? None of those wash in light of the Great Recession's fallout.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5415 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Neil,

    It's easy to identify problems, much harder in reality to fix them.

    And that mix of identity vs class vs environment is a potent brew.

    What's beyond doubt is that the longer the quasi-Thatcherist status quo persists, the more likely NZ is open to a "hard Brexit" or hitching a ride on the Trump train, as angry and disaffected left-behinders look for a populist who'll "throw a molotov" at the elites.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5415 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    It seems to be a feature of the petty personality cults that NZ politics throws up. Like Greg O'Connor, whose "progressive" attitude on drug law reform is touted as so compelling that we're encouraged to forget that given the chance he'd arm the police tomorrow.

    A bit like how Franklin Roosevelt paid lip-service to black civil rights because of the need for conservative Dixiecrat support for the New Deal. Or when Lyndon Johnson introduced the Great Society programme & the Civil Rights Act, only to blow it all with the Vietnam War.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5415 posts Report Reply

  • Mr Mark,

    Re-posting Toby Manhire & Bernard Hickey links (originally posted by Russell & Sacha) - both hit the nail squarely on the head

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/07-08-2017/the-greens-are-in-disarray-leaving-the-left-resurgence-hanging-by-a-thread/

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/08/08/41632/turei-benefit-fraud-backfire

    Wellington • Since Dec 2009 • 127 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Mr Mark,

    both hit the nail

    In both cases a swing and a miss. They'd make lousy carpenters, maybe next weeks columns might prove them better journalists than the moralising horseshit they served up this week
    And to Mr Morgan

    fixing the system faults

    Is that right! just needs a bit of adjustment, some knob twiddling
    WAY TO MISS THE POINT GARETH!

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1881 posts Report Reply

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