Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: How many children with cancer would an editor's salary cure?

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  • Tom Semmens,

    You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to link this bit of political deflection with National's gaffe over Kiwisaver and wonder how much comparing of notes there actually is between the Herald and the National Party these days.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2217 posts Report Reply

  • dc_red,

    And how cheap would a conference have to be to avoid a huge front-page headline in the New Zealand Herald reading Luxury for state house staff?

    There's the rub.

    $65,000 / 94 people / 2 days = $345 per person per day.

    I'd put that in the "neither excessive nor especially budget-conscious" category for the public service?

    Perhaps the choice of venue wasn't the wisest?

    Oil Patch, Alberta • Since Nov 2006 • 706 posts Report Reply

  • James Green,

    I usually consider myself a political junkie. But I'm so f***ing sick of this election already.

    Limerick, Ireland • Since Nov 2006 • 703 posts Report Reply

  • Rogan Polkinghorne,

    The whole 'could pay Dot's rent' scenario made me groan out loud in the lunch room this morning...I mean, come on!

    I'm sure my landlord spends a shed-load that they could otherwise be spending on the house I live in, but guess what? They don't! Nor do I bemoan the fact they're driving an Audi when the gutters are leaking. It's completely irrelevant to say 'they've spent x which could've bought y instead'...as if HNZ doesn't spend ANYTHING on their houses/tenants. Sure, maybe they could've done it cheaper (but probably not by much), but at the end of the day I think it's almost remarkably cheap!

    A-town • Since Nov 2006 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    There's the rub.

    $65,000 / 94 people / 2 days = $345 per person per day.

    But the same staff could go to a third-party conference or seminar in Wellington costing twice that and no one would bat an eyelid. It's not about the cost, really.

    And again, when you tot up accommodation, all meals and conference facilities, plus transport costs from Auckland and Wellington, it's not exorbitant.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • James Green,

    Oh yeah, and it is a stellar price. Perhaps HNZ could go into conference management as a way of funding Dot's rent or repairs?

    Limerick, Ireland • Since Nov 2006 • 703 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Pearce,

    Agree Russell this is a beat up. That is in no way excessive for a conference for ~100 people

    Cheap shot at APN though, they can do what they like with their money, it's not mine.

    This tells a story though....

    "All my family lives on the street, I'm not going anywhere."

    Auckland • Since Feb 2007 • 504 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    Here is a serious question: Do people think this virulent anti-Labour thing is a one off from the Herald, or has the toxic yellow press finally caught up with Godzone?

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2217 posts Report Reply

  • dc_red,

    But the same staff could go to a third-party conference or seminar in Wellington costing twice that and no one would bat an eyelid. It's not about the cost, really.

    Indeed, I attended a conference in downtown Auckland last year that was $550 for two days, and that didn't include dinners, transport, or accommodation.

    As a 'local', I covered my own transport costs ($6.50 on the bus each way), and went home overnight.

    But those who flew in from Wellington, Christchurch, etc. must have spent well in excess of $345/day.

    Oil Patch, Alberta • Since Nov 2006 • 706 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to link this bit of political deflection with National's gaffe over Kiwisaver and wonder how much comparing of notes there actually is between the Herald and the National Party these days.

    Um, yes you do Tom. If The Herald is sucking John Key's cock, nobody told John Armstrong. His column today was withering, and much as I hate to say it is pretty fair. Guess TVNZ, Three, Radio New Zealand, Fairfax, Newstalk ZB also need to get with the vast right wing conspiracy, because they've not buried this either.

    According to Ruth Dyson's answers in the house yesterday, the Taupo venue was chosen as one to which most staff could drive, rather than fly. And indeed, the cost of travel averaged out to $107 a head. For Rankin's junket, it was $1578. How are these things the same?

    Well, let's not mention the print and TV campaign ads Labour ran in 1999 saying this kind of culture of "public sector waste and extravagance" was going to stop. Dead.

    [M]y only problem with a $250 per head per night cost for accommodation, meals and conference facilities runs along the lines: how could I get a deal like that?

    Well, I'd like to know that too. A few years back, I worked on the functions side of a hotel and you'd offer very deep discounts to corporates and government departments if you had a pretty good indication of a lot of business in future. You'd even loss lead if there was a fat corporate account on the horizon.

    Perhaps the choice of venue wasn't the wisest?

    Well, that gets the gold star for understatement of the day. Let's write a reality check here: Housing New Zealand is a public agency, whose sole purpose is to provide housing to people in need. And should I add that there's a lengthy wait-list, including a core of people living in conditions you'd be prosecuted for keeping a dog in.

    I'd also be very surprised if Housing NZ front line staff aren't going to be told to pull their belts in during the next pay round.

    I know this isn't a precise analogy, but wouldn't we all be cocking our eyebrows if (for the sake of argument) F&P management were having a staff retreat at a resort near Taupo, after another round of lay-offs? And honestly, would anyone be particularly mollified by being told that they did get a fat discount?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    And just as a sidebar, it would have been nice if this question was asked: Was anything achieved at the Tongariro Lodge that couldn't have been done equally well by some combo of tele/videoconferencing and e-mail? One would think that would not only be cost-effective but seriously 'green', which I thought government departments were being encouraged to be nowadays.

    Hell, as I've said on another thread, I don't agree with George Monbiot on much. But kudos to him for walking the talk, and appearing via videolink at Readers and Writers Week in Wellington this year rather than increasing his carbon footprint by jumping on a dirty jet.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Lyndon Hood,

    I heard a story once that a government department costed a conference and worked out it would be cheaper to send everyone to fiji.

    They couldn't possibly send everyone to Fiji, so they called off the conference.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1115 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew Paul Wood,

    Conferences do tend to be more productive if the surroundings are modestly pleasant.

    Christchurch • Since Jan 2007 • 175 posts Report Reply

  • michael freeman,

    The land that those houses are on in Kupe st. is worth a fortune.HNZ could always in-fill like a lot of Auckland,or sell off a couple of sites.That would pay Dots rent for years.

    hamilton • Since Apr 2008 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    So it's actually nothing to do with the cost, Craig? Just whatever perception can be created by the way the story is framed? Sorry, I don't buy that, and I don't believe Housing NZ staff have to meet in a cardboard box for show purposes.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I heard a story once that a government department costed a conference and worked out it would be cheaper to send everyone to fiji.

    They couldn't possibly send everyone to Fiji, so they called off the conference.

    Well, if that's true (and I wouldn't be in the least surprised if it was) I'd have been more inclined to sack whoever was in charge of collecting the quotes. As I said, if someone organising a reasonably large conference or dinner can't shop around for a hefty discount in a crowded and highly competitive industry, they're not trying.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    How many children with cancer would an editor's salary cure?

    There's a cure for cancer?

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Um, yes you do Tom. If The Herald is sucking John Key's cock, nobody told John Armstrong. His column today was withering, and much as I hate to say it is pretty fair.

    Indeed. I'd further observe that Armstrong's column focused on a matter of policy that will affect every working New Zealander, and might perhaps have better deserved to occupy the front page (rather than page 6) than the "luxury lodge" story.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to link this bit of political deflection with National's gaffe over Kiwisaver and wonder how much comparing of notes there actually is between the Herald and the National Party these days.

    I suspect it has more to do with National having a really sharp media team while Labour's has been a train wreck for over a year now.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Agree Russell this is a beat up. That is in no way excessive for a conference for ~100 people

    Cheap shot at APN though, they can do what they like with their money, it's not mine.

    Of course. But there's an undeniable irony in APN's flagship paper affecting a blue fit about a conference at a "luxury Taupo lodge" when its own "team" meets annually at an even more luxurious Taupo lodge.

    Why, I'll bet the budget for the APN retreat would have funded another journalist to speak truth to power for a whole year ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Dot, who did not want to give her surname, says she has been asking HNZ for years for a bigger house than her current place in Kupe St, Orakei, where she has lived for eight years.

    ...

    "All my family lives on the street, I'm not going anywhere."

    She wants a bigger house, but she's not going anywhere? HNZ has to build her an extension on her government subsidised housing?

    They should have found a less picky person resident to quote.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    There's a cure for cancer?

    If newspaper editors would only work for free, there'd be a cure tomorrow.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • larryq,

    This is just a beat up. As a rule I ignore stories about how much money Government organisations are spending on non core activities and how many widgets they could fund on a single house/person/bird/tree/. It's just bullshit and the Nats know it. In a years time assuming a National Government, Labour will be saying how rapacious civil servants are under National. It all increases the cynicism many people have for bureaucrats.

    What we should really be looking at is the overall spend on government services and how effective they are compared to the alternatives.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 24 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Sorry, I don't buy that, and I don't believe Housing NZ staff have to meet in a cardboard box for show purposes.

    You forgot the stale bread, stagnant water and team-building heavy bondage I'd dish out to those poor petals, Russell.

    Sorry if this offends you, Russell, but if I was a HNZ manager signing off on the proposal for this event, you bet your arse I'd be raising a red flag around the venue. Back in the real world, my partner works for a company where money for 'team-bulding' junkets, hui-hopping and corporate entertainment (i.e. running up five figure bar tabs) is a wee bit harder to come by than it used to. People are encouraged to set up a teleconference than hop on a plane. You've got to make a case for going to conferences. That doesn't mean professional development doesn't happen but that there's a little more focus on it being effective and (yes) perceived as so, especially when you've got shareholders to answer to.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Perhaps the choice of venue wasn't the wisest?

    So they should deliberately seek out somewhere that, whilst no cheaper, is notably scuzzier.

    Mind you, almost all corporate conferences and retreats are big no-ops, in my experience. The main cost isn't the accomodation so much as the lost time ($500 a day maybe for a middle-grade manager).

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

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