Hard News: Don't Panic
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I'm just gutted that I missed the great and under appreciated Bill Direen, must be more alert to these things.
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Don't all terrorists have at their core a legitimate grievence that history will eventually pove them right (if not rightous as we now celebrate the ANC)?
Michael: I'm not sure what you mean by that (unless you intended to write 'illegitimate conviction' instead of 'legitimate grievance'), but I suspect the short answer is no.
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So often the 'Terrorist' becomes the statesmen.
How do you view Nelson Mandela? -
I think they really need to stop saying "al Qaeda!" as a reflex. It looks like one of the suspects already arrested is a doctor from Iran, and thus extremely unlikely to be involved with a Sunni Islamist group.
Well quite. The headlines have been far more sensational than the actual content of the stories too (not to mention Tiger Tiger on a school night), but it certainly didn't keep the crowds away from Pride over the weekend (although the parade route was changed to one street up from Haymarket).
And on another note, what is with the rising use of the term "Islamicist" instead of Muslim? I've noticed it on quite of media coverage from NZ in particular (yes stuff website, I'm looking at you)
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So often the 'Terrorist' becomes the statesmen.
How do you view Nelson Mandela?As a young man Israeli PM Ariel Sharon was blowing up buildings to drive the British out of Palestine.
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How do you view Nelson Mandela?
or Paul Revere for that matter...my understanding is that "loyal" settlers were fair game in 1776.
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I think they really need to stop saying "al Qaeda!" as a reflex. It looks like one of the suspects already arrested is a doctor from Iran, and thus extremely unlikely to be involved with a Sunni Islamist group.
the blanket Al-Qaeda-isation" of the GWOT (c) is quite a phenomena at the moment if you follow the daily media releases from Centcom and Pennsylvania Ave.
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The reality much more nuanced than the usual "clash of civilisations" bilge. Damned if I know what ought to be done about it though.
That's the situation summed up rather nicely. The PNAC world view oversimplified everything and it's legacy lives on even though the actual group is rather diminished, apparently (probably still meet in Cheney's shed on Sunday afternoons).
The internal struggle within Islam and the history of Wahhibism barely get a mention in the MSM (hate that acronym, but what are you going to say?) yet is at the heart of radicalism.
If we want to be safer we will have to give a hand to those who want to modernize Islam but we will have avoid the "my enemies enemy..." trap.
People like Sarkozy might find that a little hard to take and the rabid American right aren't going to get on board anytime soon.
Meanwhile stumblebum Bush keeps helping the recruitment figures for AQ et al. Thank god for Westham United to divert one. -
How do you view Nelson Mandela?
Well, in many ways an enormously admirable man. The ANC? More of curate's egg.
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It's a bloody interesting observation. Some of the jihadists are recruited at university level, and can't been seen to be oppressed in any conventional sense.
Monkey Dust are way ahead of you.
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That show is the sharpest thing to come out of the UK since Thatchers hair cuts IMHO :-)
Really like how dry and British it is - and dark :-)
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Simon
I like the tie back to America's (Domestic) Terrorist past.Craig
I agree, but all political/military organisations are a curate's egg.How about our resident Statesman to 'Terrorist' - Ahmed Zaoui?
Don't know what he got up to but in an election that makes Miami look fair - I'ld feel moved to act myself.
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About all I've seen of the bomb related fun was a young guy checking bags at the National Portrait Gallery. Oh, and every single newspaper has 2-3 pages coverage.
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Don't all terrorists have at their core a legitimate grievence that history will eventually pove them right (if not rightous as we now celebrate the ANC)?
That is undoubtedly what bin Laden believes.
How do you view Nelson Mandela?
With a simple comparison to Mugabe.
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I'm in London on business at the moment.
The boss called and asked if we wanted to come home... I didn't get it till he pointed out the "Critical" terror alert... but then I grew up here, and we have such an ingrained distrust of the media and the ruling classes that we simply ignore it.And the media are reveling in it. Eventually during the IRA campaigns it became largely unreported (only the big stuff you couldn't avoid). Now that was a stupid policy - the gummint applied pressure to stifle the media, so the Fundamentalist Catholics (!) had to perform bigger and bigger atrocities to get attention.
I flew out of London City Airport today. Security is no worse (or time consuming) than, say, Christchurch. But plod are carrying SMG's, which is a bit freaky. And there were snipers in the roof at Waterloo today.
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But plod are carrying SMG's
Most armed UK police have used the HK47 rifle as their weapon of choice for years. It's much more accurate than a handgun and so regarded as safer. I'm not sure if the police ones have full-auto, but even if they do I don't think they would use it.
Haven't seen snipers though - maybe they could help the cleaners by shooting the pigeons.
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I don't know about all this stiff upper lip and stoicism being particularly British. The Spanish response to the 2004 Madrid bombings - 191 dead and 2050 wounded - was both reasoned and dignified and brave. I think that where you still have a functioning civil society with active participation then the empowerment of that gives courage to people. I don't want to particularly bash the United States, but its got to be said that for vast swaths of that country their democracy is a crock and many, many Americans have become little more than disempowered, empty consumer drones to be manipulated at will. When you infantalise an entire population then you can only expect an infant's ignorant response.
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Neil
You compare Mandela with Mugabe?A fair comparison for their initial role once gaining power.
The holding on till grim death is all Mugabe and reminiscent of the regime he took over from.
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I don't think stoicism in the face of this sort of event has much to do with nationalities. Its more about the fact that dwellers of big cities don't tend to freak out about these sorts of things. There's too many other things to get exercised about in your daily life. At least that's been my experience having lived in two very large cities through major "terrorist" incidents. New Yorkers after 9/11 didn't in my experience go through any form of collective nervous breakdown and nor did Londoners after any of the many or varied incidents that I experienced there.
And hey Che - long time mate! Check your email. I've sent one using the tab on the .
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Obviously some Christains were feeling left out on the hate-o-meter
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A good editorial in the Times today, rightly calling out the apologists for Islamic terrorism.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article2017440.ece
" It is perverse of left-wing politicians such as Ken Livingstone to equate the Islamists with social justice and national liberation: they believe in neither. To excuse or even tolerate the intolerant is a denial of all the values that the Left purports to embrace. If Muslims are to denounce the roots of fanaticism, so too must those who would embrace them as neighbours and fellow citizens."
Also a good article in the Telegraph pissing all over the new Home Secretary's regurgitation of a standard load of moral relativist cant:
"In her statement to the House yesterday, the new Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith, said, "Terrorists are criminals who come from all religious backgrounds", which, in the present context, is absurd. Obviously, all Muslims should not be branded as potential terrorists, but, for present purposes, all terrorists are likely to be Muslims."
A great article by a former Islamic terrorist identifying the true cause of Islamic terrorism, Islamic theology, and highlighting how wrong it is to blame terrorism on western policies or actions.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=465570&in_page_id=1770
"I remember how we used to laugh in celebration whenever people on TV proclaimed that the sole cause for Islamic acts of terror like 9/11, the Madrid bombings and 7/7 was Western foreign policy.
By blaming the Government for our actions, those who pushed this "Blair's bombs" line did our propaganda work for us.
More important, they also helped to draw away any critical examination from the real engine of our violence: Islamic theology."Slowly the moral relativist wool is falling from people's eyes and the world is making progress toward a better understanding of the real causes and reality of Islamic terrorism. Better late than never.
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Well, if the Times and Telegraph are being solid and clear headed, Gordon Brown certainly isn't.
"Gordon Brown has banned ministers from using the word “Muslim” in connection with the terrorism crisis./"
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/12172/Brown:+Don't+say+terrorists+are+Muslims
Pitiful. Just pitiful.
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Prime Ministers don't usually seek to alienate large groups of voters in their first week of government. Especially not when they want to win elections.
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I can't read Gordon Brown's mind, but it seems rather unlikely to me that he was thinking of politics when he issued his decree on language not to be used by his government. At least politics was not what he should have been thinking about.
He should have been, and I would believe that he was thinking about what is the best course of action to take in the current situation. Which makes his decree on language all the more distressing. How are you ever going to solve a problem if you won't or can't correctly define and describe it?
As the former Islamic terrorist linked to and quoted above in my 3:54AM post above states, the root cause of Islamic terrorism is Islamic theology.
Think of the great leaders in history. Would any of them have shied away from calling a spade a spade?
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James - Hold the horses here.
The dude refs to himself as a former fanatic not terrorist.
There are plenty of fanatics out there not commiting any crime, nor shud it be a crime to be a fanatical Christain, Muslim, or Environmentalist etc.
Similarly terrorism exists without Islam - IRA,ANC,UVF,Phineas Priesthood,UDA,ETA,KKK,Sea Sheppards - Need I go on.
There is nothing inherent in Islamic Theology that is a root of terrorism other than the common bond of all Terrorist organisations - They're Human!
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