Hard News by Russell Brown

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  • Russell Brown,

    But if this does not happen then Labour is dead in water.

    Angus, Labour has been "dead in the water" as a result of Investigate exposes quite a few times now. It seems to truck on. Check Your Views on the Herald website - most of the people there seem to be raging against the "political correctness" that makes the story an issue.

    Amusingly, many of the same blogland dwellers who accused Helen Clark of conducting a PC vendetta against individual police officers with the Bazley report are now screaming for heads to roll in this case. Plus ca change ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    December Alpha November Yoyo Lima - as a radio personality of growing repute I would expect you to be erring on the side of accuracy these days.

    Fair point, Don, and it's a rather odd block to have - I went to school with a Darryl McLauchlan but as far as I know, he's a very happy primary teacher in South London, is utterly disinterested in New Zealand politics (which might explain why he's such a cheery bird), and has been for years.

    Still, I do think you're veering off into Wishart-lite land with, I find it incredibly odd that Key and English chose to give their first in-depth interview to Wishart. Was this some kind of payback? I must admit I prefer to waste my discretionary income on chocolate and tobacco, so I've not read this 'in-depth' interview you speak of, but I'm pretty sure I've read a few other interviews with Key and English over the years.

    Still, I think you've got a point about suing. It's the old Catch-22, isn't it? If you sue, you risk just giving the slime a whole new audience. The nature of the beast is even if you win (by no means certain), a defamation suit can consume years of your life, as well as huge amounts of money. (Just look at David Lange for a particularly sad example.)

    OTOH, you never stop bullies by ducking, and just hoping they move on to someone else. Politicians, its fair to say, are generally people with very thick skins who have no illusions about the downside of public life. Others who get dragged into tabloid smear campaigns aren't.

    Can't say I'd relish a legal brawl with Ian Wishart, but no matter how low my opinion of Cullen and Benson Pope those allegations against them are vile. If true, they should be char-grilled goneburgers. If not, and in their positions, I'd want Wishart's nuts for ear-bobs by any means possible.

    Candy & Jason will be watching your career trajectory with interest.

    Hum... if I had any idea what that meant, I'd be very disturbed. :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • stephen walker,

    And really, back in the day any sort of home projection (rugby, porn or otherwise), would be much more novel than it is now.

    huh? in 1981, video was VERY new and novel in NZ. In 1980, one guy in my class (from a very wealthy family) had a VCR imported from the US. All videos had to be brought in from overseas too. There were no VCRs in the shops and no video rentals in NZ in 1980. So I doubt 1981 had changed significantly.
    OTOH, film projection equipment was quite common. A LOT of people in the 70s had standard- and super-8mm cameras and projectors. Home film projectors were NOT rare in the late 70s/early 80s.

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 645 posts Report Reply

  • John Morrison,

    Ian Wishart is the Lord of the disingenuous and it amazes me that the MSM repeatedly pick up on his drivel.

    I just think this guy has lost all credibility, and the MSM exposure he gets encourages him to keep going. If everybody would ignore him, hopefully he might disappear

    Again belatedly, congrats to RB on his recent award success. Kiwiblog looks cheap and the opinions are nothing to write home about either

    Cromwell • Since Nov 2006 • 85 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    Craig, thanks for your reply.

    OTOH, you never stop bullies by ducking, and just hoping they move on to someone else. Politicians, its fair to say, are generally people with very thick skins who have no illusions about the downside of public life. Others who get dragged into tabloid smear campaigns aren't.

    Agreed. I must say I did pause for some time before commenting on this thread. I do run a business and I have no desire to get dragged into this sort of muck-taking debate. But in the end I feel that unless a folks from across the spectrum of views are prepared to say "this is wrong" then the likes of Wishart go through life unchallenged and the tone of debate in this country turns to puke.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1645 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Perhaps, those same people aren't the now Police Commissioner who thinks criminal offending of this nature is best dealt with through "internal action", however.

    Does he think that now? No. You're condemning a junior constable for failing to make an official complaint to senior officers about something at least some of those senior officers already knew about.

    And let's be clear: while the film would have been illegal to possess, it wouldn't have been illegal to watch, and Broad maintains he didn't even do that.

    And arguments of this nature didn't seem to work in the eyes of most over the Abu Gahraib guards who didn't blow the whistle:

    Eh? I think most of the people concerned about Abu Ghraib were disturbed that it was only junior personnel who took the rap, when everyone up the chain of command knew what was happening. And that's also a very adventurous comparison.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Angus Robertson,

    Labour has been "dead in the water" as a result of Investigate exposes quite a few times now.

    This is occuring as Labour is slipping in the polls and is a golden chance to be a statesman.

    Investigate is anti-Labour, there isn't really a better and more convincing opportunity to be a statesman than to reach out to those who despise you. Look at Mr Key seeking & getting accomodation with Sue Bradford. Look at the polls before and after.

    If there was corruption going on then Investigate has 25 years of dirt (less however many years National was in power) to trawl through. This has legs, should not be let to run. Stopping it by complying with Wisharts wish is as likely the most effective solution and makes it a Labour Party initiative.

    Auckland • Since May 2007 • 984 posts Report Reply

  • Riddley Walker,

    the sole reference to "payback" in this discussion so far has been misapplied. there are other contexts, like in relation to Broad, where it might be used more illuminatingly.

    AKL • Since Feb 2007 • 890 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    angus, it also costs hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars, makes people more suspicious, and potentially sees labour creating a rod with which to be whipped...

    i'm not sure they'll follow your lead on this one.

    if we had a royal commission every time nzls version of "the national enquirer" spots a potential alien abduction, we'll be bankrupt!

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • hamishm,

    Broad has admitted that this incident occured. The Bazely report said that there was a culture in the mid'80's where ugly sexual behaviour was condoned. this has been corroborated by testimony in the recent historical rape cases. So there's a niggling feeling that something was definitely wrong with our police force in those days.

    While Karams interview was unfocused and gave very little detail, it did point to a wide spread perception that something was wrong.
    I think an official investigation is needed and because the Bazely report only dealt with accusations made against the police, a new inquiry would have to be much wider.

    This is central to our society, people from overseas, who live here now, have said to me that they did not feel that they could trust police when they first arrived because of the societies that they grew up in.
    It is too serious to have concerns for who political party will win or lose from it.

    Since Nov 2006 • 357 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Broad should appear before the House Committee on un-New Zealand Activities and name names. As long as people have done nothing wrong, or known somebody or been near somebody or heard a rumour about somebody who has done something wrong, then they have nothing to fear.

    "Are you now, or have you ever been ...?"

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1333 posts Report Reply

  • John Farrell,

    He already has, Simon. It's called "Investigate Magazine".

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 499 posts Report Reply

  • Robert Fox,

    This has legs, should not be let to run. Stopping it by complying with Wisharts wish is as likely the most effective solution and makes it a Labour Party initiative.

    I'd be inclined to ignore it and see if National offer up anything that the nutter wants. Somehow I doubt if they will. Key has been at pains to pull his party away from the right wing lunatic fringe and this strategy is starting to pay off big time personaly for him in the polls. Also I suggest that they would rather not be seen to be ruffling the feathers of the law at a time when there are better points to be scored by offering the police political support over gangs/boy racers/ drugs issues etc. Unless any of the MSM really take the bait and troll up something of real substance then my guess is that this will be a non issue within a couple of weeks.

    Since Nov 2006 • 114 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    I almost feel sorry for Mr. Wishart. I don't know what demons he keeps locked in the dark corners of his mind, but I would guess sometimes their pounding on the doors gets very loud indeed.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2217 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Does he think that now? No.

    Um ... yes he does. Via the DomPost:

    Mr Broad said the incident reflected another time in police culture. If it happened today, he said he would expect it to be discussed with the officer's supervisor and "some internal action taken".

    I hope the DomPost hasn't stooped to Herald on Sunday quotation standards.

    Amusingly, many of the same blogland dwellers who accused Helen Clark of conducting a PC vendetta against individual police officers with the Bazley report are now screaming for heads to roll in this case.

    One major difference might be that one involves allegations of criminal misconduct, the other (group sex etc.) did not.

    'Though, to be honest, I'm not actually sure what offences the Cinematograph Films Act 1976 actually contained. Maybe viewing was one. Or owning premises in which they were shown? Or maybe no-one committed an offence.

    Eh?

    My Abu Ghraib comparison was a little abstruse. Those who were held accountable were for the most part junior. However, there were other junior personnel who were ragged on by many (specifically or in general) who didn't take part, but did know and did nothing.

    I would now note, however, that in the DomPost article to which I link above, Broad does say:

    I complained about it afterwards.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • Lyndon Hood,

    "a child sex, bondage and bestiality ring operating in Dunedin in 1984 run by the father of a police officer and attended by at least one Labour cabinet minister"

    And to think they were looking in Christchurch all that time...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1115 posts Report Reply

  • Tony Kennedy,

    Wishart's nuts for ear-bobs by any means possible

    A challenge for the good folks at http://craft2.org/

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 225 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    One major difference might be that one involves allegations of criminal misconduct, the other (group sex etc.) did not.

    I'm not a fancy big city lawyer but I'm pretty sure rape can be classified as criminal misconduct.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    One major difference might be that one involves allegations of criminal misconduct, the other (group sex etc.) did not.

    I'm not a fancy big city lawyer but I'm pretty sure rape can be classified as criminal misconduct.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    One major difference might be that one involves allegations of criminal misconduct, the other (group sex etc.) did not.

    I'm not a fancy big city lawyer but I'm pretty sure rape can be classified as criminal misconduct.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Tom "I almost feel sorry for Mr. Wishart. I don't know what demons he keeps locked in the dark corners of his mind, but I would guess sometimes their pounding on the doors gets very loud indeed."

    It wasn't long ago he revealed that his wife had been stalked by a real creep for quite some time and it made their lives hell. The stalker is in jail now I think - I can't find the kiwiblog article about it as the search doesn't seem to be working. Anyways, I'm wondering if that might have affected with his balance. If it happened, that is. I've only heard allegations.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Um ... yes he does. Via the DomPost:

    I stand corrected, whilst noting your note at the end.

    One major difference might be that one involves allegations of criminal misconduct, the other (group sex etc.) did not.

    Uh? The Bazley investigation into police culture was sparked by allegations of rape and sexual abuse, wasn't it? Some of which were found in a court to be true.

    'Though, to be honest, I'm not actually sure what offences the Cinematograph Films Act 1976 actually contained. Maybe viewing was one. Or owning premises in which they were shown? Or maybe no-one committed an offence.

    From what I can tell, the offence would have lain in exhibiting the film, which would presumably have passed the test of being "injurious to the public good". Those who viewed it would have been the victims.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    Candy & Jason will be watching your career trajectory with interest.

    Hum... if I had any idea what that meant, I'd be very disturbed. :)

    Heh. In a roundabout way, I was wondering if you could dance! (Stock gag sorry, I'll tire of it soon, I promise).

    Meanwhile - 1981 & film projectors - pretty much every school, and many, many companies, had their own 16mm &/or 8mm projectors (I had two 16mm personally even).. It was even quite easy in those days to rent 16mm feature films (ostensibly for fund raising).

    I'd guess the bestiality flick came from the confiscated goods storeroom.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew Smith,

    Yeah, they sure had 16mm films for hire in the early 80s. I worked part time for Kerridge Odeon in 246 and my 'job' was winding the things back when they came in. And yes, they had a large 'porn' collection. KO never stocked bestiality flicks though.

    Since Jan 2007 • 150 posts Report Reply

  • Angus Robertson,

    Robert

    Somehow I doubt if they will. Key has been at pains to pull his party away from the right wing lunatic fringe and this strategy is starting to pay off big time personaly for him in the polls.

    You might be right, but that still leaves Winston, Dunne, Turia and Hide who are not so good in the polls. Especially Hide who officially is trying to cull off some National and Winston votes.

    Also National is unlikely to because like you say it does not need to - its polls are up. And for the practical reason that National members would likely be affected by a taint of corruption of the past 25 years as they were governing for several of them.

    To misquote Che:

    potentially sees [national] creating a rod with which to be whipped...

    But even giving it to the small parties and hoping that nothing is found is a risk that does not need to be taken. Set a royal commission on a 2 or 3 year mandate for a full and total investigation of the facts (results after the election), National will likely aquiesce to this as well (see above) and it will be Labour driving it to Labours credit.

    To misquote Che again (apologies):

    it also costs hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars, makes people more suspicious, [takes a long time]

    Auckland • Since May 2007 • 984 posts Report Reply

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