Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Christchurch: Is "quite good" good enough?

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  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Hebe,

    It would be nice to see some public fruit trees in the frame, even community gardens.

    I doubt they'll even keep the myriad orphaned fruit trees that will remain in the residential red zone park areas, any way the future of food is chemistry, don'tcha know?
    </sigh>

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7948 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    Oh, I was probably a bit hasty, not a town planner at all me.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    I really dislike the way you used my broken city as a chance to have a go at Tom

    It's not just your city, Keir. And I think Sacha has made some very constructive suggestions about the city plan. Perhaps we could all have a calm and reasoned conversation?

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    - 80% of people need to be physically at work for genuine reasons, like it’s a shop/engineering works/hospital/bar
    - 15% of people could work from home, but no NZ boss trusts people they can’t see sat at a desk
    - 4% work in software for companies that have embraced the ‘agile’ fad and require all their staff on site for regular f****n standup meetings
    - the other 1% are very fortunate indeed. Or unemployed.

    What's your source here, Rich? I know plenty of people who work wholly or partially from home. And some NZ bosses do indeed trust their employees.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie, in reply to merc,

    Hah neither am I, just some poor sod who gets to live here.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie, in reply to Lilith __,

    Yeah I know it isn’t just my city, and I’d hate to give the impression it was.

    But I really do think that Sacha’s comments were basically trolling. I think Tom was contributing in good faith, and that he didn’t deserve the snark coming from Sacha, and it really does make me angry to be used as fodder in someone else’s fight. Even if he wasn’t, Hebe and you were perfectly able to say what needed to be said.

    I am also quite unhappy that Sacha’s reaction to someone bluntly saying: I live here, I don’t want to be used in your argument was to call Tom a twat, carrying on that argument.

    This is perhaps tied to a bigger thing. Don’t get me wrong, I want Christchurch to have great public transport, to have great infrastructure, to keep our council owned assets, to have a properly democratic council. I’ve worked towards those goals in various ways.

    But I don’t particularly enjoy listening to people who don’t live here riding hobby horses about Ecan or whatever. (I am thinking of some of No Right Turn’s recent posts here.) I get that people who don’t live here are indignant and all, but it is quite unpleasant to be a pawn in other people’s arguments.

    [Edited to add: sometimes, perhaps, it would be nice to have more allies and fewer angrily opinionated political ranters.]

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    And thank goodness it's people, the people who live in a place that really make that place. For a time i visited Christchurch fairly often for family reasons, and I reckon I have met the most kind, hospitable and down to earth people. And there's surf! Sumner, the square, the river, nights out on the town that did not result in horror, and books, a place where books and art and music are revered. Good food, fine cafe life, the countryside nearby, amazing coastlines...it is my romantic notion that once the nabobs have their swagger the real people will settle back down to being and doing what they always have done, with strength and quiet calm. I know there is alot of strife and struggle but I have not encountered any meanness.
    I was born in the north but my time spent in the south is always refreshing and wonderful, even the weird times and every place has those.
    Just thought I say that.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to merc,

    ut my time spent in the south is always refreshing and wonderful, even the weird times and every place has those.

    I’m Southern, and was born & brought up in ChCh – as were my 5 siblings.
    I think it understandable – given the OldBoys’networks and general snobbishness of the place -NONE of us now live there – and, while some of us (not me) own properties in ChCh, NONE of us intend living back there.

    We live is Aus – we live south (well, my mother & a sibling & his family, and most of my Kai Tahu & Orkney rellies do – and I will be, shortly!)
    As well as the good, there was – and still is – a helluva lot wrong with ChChCh, and the latest shennigans emphasize this.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to merc,

    Thanks, merc, and arohanui to you for that. These are difficult and draining times in Chch, but we're all hoping for better things. :-)

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • Rachel Prosser, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    The reality of life in Christchurch post earthquake is actually going to be a decentralised existence lived in big box shopping complexes of K-marts, Mitre 10 Mega stores, Harvey Normans and Pack n Save

    To be frank - that was the reality of life pre earthquake for many people. Lots of people didn't go into the city much.

    Christchurch • Since Mar 2008 • 228 posts Report Reply

  • Rachel Prosser, in reply to Ed Muzik,

    Canterbury vs Wellington is all well and good, but A Day on The Green featuring Brooke Fraser and Skrillex is a different story.

    Why? It wouldn't take much longer to close the ground for a concert than a cricket match. Why wouldn't listening to music at a cricket ground be lovely? When I first moved to Wellington they held an orchestra/classical sparks type thing at the Basin (which is open for people to walk through still, I believe)

    Christchurch • Since Mar 2008 • 228 posts Report Reply

  • Rachel Prosser, in reply to Richard Derham,

    the absence of any announcement on the town hall

    If you watch the video interviews it's clear that they don't yet know the fate of the Town Hall. The arts precinct layout will be more or less spread out depending on whether the Town Hall remains or not. I

    Christchurch • Since Mar 2008 • 228 posts Report Reply

  • Rachel Prosser, in reply to James Caygill,

    I seem to be the person in Chch who’s in favour of the Hagley Oval upgrade

    Me too. I loved watching Canterbury Cricket at Hagley Oval when Madonna munted Lancaster Park. In fact, I remember watching Lee Germon play, in the glory days of Canterbury cricket.

    I'll trade off a little more development in Hagley, for the huge new "Frame" park from Kilmore to St Asaph. I love the idea of a giant kid's playground down at the end nearest Centennial Pool, and walking through the park to a cosy covered stadium for the rugby.

    Christchurch • Since Mar 2008 • 228 posts Report Reply

  • Gregor Ronald, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Lancaster Park (wot was) did Christchurch's cricket and rugby, once upon a time. Why does cricket need its own venue? Oh yes, rugby now goes on for 10 months a year. Well then, they should pay for their venue, it's obviously popular. Ahem, not really...

    I just can't believe these sports administrator guys; have any of their audience estimates ever been accurate?

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 103 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Islander,

    May I reiterate my post?

    A very large number of born&bred Chchch people are NOT returning to the place.
    For very good reasons. Especially because of the known city hierarchical culture*, and the perception that the place has been taken over – with the OldBoys’Network on a whole new rightwing level- for the advantage of their Own-

    *It is literally intrinsic to the place-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Gregor Ronald,

    I just can’t believe these sports administrator guys; have any of their audience estimates ever been accurate?

    I suspect that any Dunedin resident could explain exactly what's wrong with buying a huge new stadium. Not to rain on any parades here, but has anyone done the costings of how the proposed Chch stadium would break even?

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Gregor Ronald,

    Well then, they should pay for their venue, it’s obviously popular.

    Oh joy! Then we won't have to sell the council's assets to pay for it. And I'm more than happy for private enterprise to own the convention centre. Bloody hell we've saved nearly a billion already.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2899 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Islander,

    A very large number of born&bred Chchch people are NOT returning to the place.
    For very good reasons. Especially because of the known city hierarchical culture*, and the perception that the place has been taken over

    I respect the right of anyone to choose to leave, for any reason. But there are a lot of people, like me, who are staying to fight for the Chch we want to have.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    Yes! I agree, we should be quite open to cheapness and (maybe) nastiness and maybe badness, things that aren't perfect and won't last for ever.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Lilith __,

    Goodoh.
    And,
    with regret & heartache,
    byebye.
    Because- one thing the hideous powers-that-are- didnt factor in, was the enourmous amount of goodwill __overseas CHCH people were initially ready to mobilise__was killed, stonedead, by the fuckshit government planning.
    And this extends to this day, to public & private funding bodies.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Islander,

    Which means,
    just in case the post was misunderstood,
    NOTHING
    will be reinvested into the Government-driven scheme for THEIR rebuilding of ChChCh....

    There are much better places to rebuild Otautahi - which was a temporary river & seasonal camp.

    Get out of the flood plain - go into the foothills - otherwise,
    grief IS assurred.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell, in reply to Lilith __,

    I suspect that any Dunedin resident could explain exactly what's wrong with buying a huge new stadium. Not to rain on any parades here, but has anyone done the costings of how the proposed Chch stadium would break even?

    Oh yeah where do I start .... "$200m" maybe - our smaller one (17k permanent seats) was promised to cost $188m, ended up something like $250 (who builds a stadium and doesn't include the cost of kitchens, turnstyles, a scoreboard, .....) once you include 20 years of financing it's going to cost much more like half a billion dollars.

    Worse even if you ignore the cost of building it and financing it it's losing money, millions a year, if you can't figure out how to get the rugby fans to pay high enough ticket prices that bring in enough money to cover your real costs, you'll end up with little old ladies on fixed incomes subsidising rugby tickets through their rates as they do in Dunedin.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2622 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    But I really do think that Sacha’s comments were basically trolling.

    He wasn’t trolling at all. It was a mildly snarky stage-whisper, but your over-reaction disrupted the discussion more than anything else. Let’s move on.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22839 posts Report Reply

  • Tim Croft,

    I definitely agree that Dunedin got taken for a ride in building the indoor stadium.

    When considering Christchurch it's important to note the council will receive about $140 million in insurance payments from AMI Stadium's insurers.

    And Christchurch has a much larger population.

    My feeling is that if Chch is going to do this then do it properly. Eden Park, for example, suits neither cricket nor soccer / league / rugby and it can't have concerts (or anything with much noise).

    I wonder, for example, if the convention centre can't in some way be included in the stadium and thus reduce costs for each?

    I do, however, completely understand that spending so much money on something that will be used for its primary use maybe 15 or 20 times a year and then only at full capacity two or three times is a hard sell especially when that money could be used more efficiently eleswhere.

    Tuscaloosa • Since May 2008 • 23 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I apologise to Keir and others for my reaction, and it was quite fair to pick up my less than constructive tone and reiterate the thread was intended to hear from current Christchurchians more than those who had lived there some time ago. It has been a crap week and I'm not always mature about dealing with it. Sorry, all. On with the discussion.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19729 posts Report Reply

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