Hard News: A revolting piece of shit
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But, as so often happens on PAS, I think there's room for honest people to disagree.
I wanted to hug you for that. In a totally consensual fashion.
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But we can think they're wrong, right? And be annoyed when what they do is held up as a Big feminist Triumph?
Yes we can. To coin a phrase.
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Yes we can. To coin a phrase.
Careful. Someone might steal that off you.
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Careful. Someone might steal that off you.
Yes! E-Can...
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(For that matter, I loathe misogynistic rap but love grand opera, which is itself problematic on the feminist tip.)
What was so sexist about 'Tommy'? That deaf, dumb and blind kid just wanted to play pinball, man. He wasn't hassling anyone.
Or perhaps you meant this?
Here's the interesting thing for me: I love horror movies (re-watch Halloween, Nightmare on Elm Street, Dawn of the Dead, Candyman etc. regularly) but loathe and despise the Saw/Hostel school of torture porn.
Well, the first 'Saw' wasn't too bad, but I've never bothered with the rest of them.
I recall you mentioning you enjoyed 'Inglourious Basterds', though, and I have wondered why '300' made you uncomfortable, but 'Inglourious Basterds' didn't.
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Yes! E-Can...
It would appear The Maori Party are seeing a bigger picture last night
I thought Leanne Dalziel was very informative in the house yesterday. She taught me quite a bit about this latest debacle. -
Off-topic but too good not to share: this from the Dim-Post.
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I wasn't going to get into this either because like Emma says, I feel like we've had this conversation over and over again. However.
However. Exactly. The conversation ain't over, just because it's been had on other blogs and in other threads and in other countries.
I'm sure it's exhausting for those who have written long and often on this and other topics in other blogs to resurrect it all again. But it would be just as exhausting for the rest of us to have to trawl back through several years of blogs and threads before deciding on whether it is okay to have this conversation now, when now seems exactly the time to have it.
I also find it problematic that there seems to be an undercurrent of if you aren't a hip hopper/brown teenage music video watcher/horror genre expert/sex worker or someone with direct knowledge thereof, you can't possibly contribute to these discussions with any fair authority, not just here but in several cyber-conversations kicking around. Which is why I haven't commented before now, here.
Also I get the feeling that I would have to establish my credentials before I do, in order to have a clear path to say my piece. And I'm not willing to go into the distasteful role that porn has played in past relationships in a public forum in order to do so, much as I would love to get stuck right into a round of "is it the porn's fault or the guy's fault?", definitions of violence/abuse both reported and non-reported, etc etc.
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I recall you mentioning you enjoyed 'Inglourious Basterds', though, and I have wondered why '300' made you uncomfortable, but 'Inglourious Basterds' didn't.
You probably need to see "Meet the Spartans" to get it.
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I recall you mentioning you enjoyed 'Inglourious Basterds', though, and I have wondered why '300' made you uncomfortable, but 'Inglourious Basterds' didn't.
Gay classics major, basically. Gerard Butler's oily man-tits don't compensate for the leering racism, homophobia and the idea that physical deformity is just a sign of moral turpitude that wasn't even in the source material. That's all on Frank Miller and Zac Snyder.
I also find it problematic that there seems to be an undercurrent of if you aren't a hip hopper/brown teenage music video watcher/horror genre expert/sex worker or someone with direct knowledge thereof, you can't possibly contribute to these discussions with any fair authority, not just here but in several cyber-conversations kicking around.
Um, OK... don't know if that's what I was doing here. Was trying to be upfront with my own tastes, and acknowledge the ambiguities and apparent inconsistencies of my own positions on censorship and related issues. Being a classical liberal is all very nice in theory, but like most theories it gets rather battered by experience.
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I get the feeling that I would have to establish my credentials before I do, in order to have a clear path to say my piece.
credentials be damned, outta the mouths of babes and all that.. spit it out lest you choke on it, I say.
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Gemma, of course it is OK to have this conversation now. I simply meant that I hadn't intended to be a part of it.
I also find it problematic that there seems to be an undercurrent of if you aren't a hip hopper/brown teenage music video watcher/horror genre expert/sex worker or someone with direct knowledge thereof, you can't possibly contribute to these discussions with any fair authority...
I don't think that's what we're saying at all. I think Emma, and I, were simply trying to point out that taking the opinions of the people actually involved in the industry would be a good starting point when regulating it.
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Gay classics major, basically. Gerard Butler's oily man-tits don't compensate for the leering racism, homophobia and the idea that physical deformity is just a sign of moral turpitude that wasn't even in the source material. That's all on Frank Miller and Zac Snyder.
and ummm soooo... do you rate it or not ?
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and ummm soooo... do you rate it or not ?
Wank fodder - A+. Anything I want to watch again - Epic F (though still marginally better than Watchmen).
Or perhaps you meant this?
Rich: Cosi is actually a pretty good example of what I mean.
'Soave sia il vento' is achingly beautiful, but the whole opera turns on a ugly bet that two men can, in disguise, seduce the other's fiancée because... well, all women are whores, right? And no matter how prickish men are they'll be forgiven by the final curtain...
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the idea that physical deformity is just a sign of moral turpitude that wasn't even in the source material
Did the Spartans have quite enlightened views on deformity and disability issues?
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Interestingly my reasons for disliking Inglor-whatever are similar to Craig's for hating 300. I found the anti-German message very hard to stomach, probably through long association with Germans, who are just people. It hid behind "anti-Nazi", but there was not one single German character in it who was not a Nazi. Which was clearly meant to make it OK to commit revolting atrocities against them.
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Oh but I agree Watchmen was even more unrewatchable. At least 300 put out on the ridiculous gratuitous violence.
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I found the anti-German message very hard to stomach, probably through long association with Germans, who are just people. It hid behind "anti-Nazi", but there was not one single German character in it who was not a Nazi. Which was clearly meant to make it OK to commit revolting atrocities against them.
But given that it was set in Occupied France not Germany, we were unlikely to encounter Germans who were not Nazis and/or in the German Army. My problem, and I think we talked about it on PAS last year, was around Tarantino's position on the "Jew-hunting" character, who he seemed to admire and endorse.
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Craig - don't sweat it.
Robbie - you callin' me a babe? ;-)Alright then, here's one. Ponder this non-theoretical example of ("harmless" ie the bog-standard legal, smutty kind of) porn's place in family life. One of many recent, and disturbingly similar, examples experienced in my sphere.
A father of teenage daughters withdraws all his usual (and safe) forms of physical warmth because said daughters have arrived at an age where they, for him, uncomfortably resemble the women in the porn that he is addicted to.
For obvious reasons (to him, at least) he can't explain to them why he has created distance between himself and his daughters. Their relationships suffer just at a time when the daughters themselves are feeling most vulnerable about their womanhood, their place in the world and their image in the eyes of the boys/men they are now getting involved with.
I believe this to be a form of domestic emotional abuse (the unexplained withdrawing of fatherly love), one that will have lasting effects (not least of all, potentially, upon the daughters' own sexual experiences), and not the sort that gets reported. So, when I read of domestic abuse decreasing when porn is around, I am suspicious of the statistics because they never tell the whole story. Statistics are funny like that.
Is it the porn's fault? Not exclusively, of course not. But is the porn culpable? Absolutely.
And yes, I'm aware there is "good" porn that informed adults can enjoy, yada yada yada... but still. This guy in question? He's not a doofus, generally. But then, I don't need to show his credentials, do I?
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And Gemma, thanks for your post. I found a lot to agree with in there. Keep it up.
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Did the Spartans have quite enlightened views on deformity and disability issues?
No but if Frank Miller and Zac Snyder wanted to make heavy weather of their fidelity to history then I'd like to see their sources for making Ephialtes a hunchbacked Spartan traitor, because I sure can't find any. In fact, if he was so badly deformed from birth that he couldn't hold a shield Ephialtes would have been cast into the Apothetae years before.
Part of me is of the school that the film is so bloody stupid, ascribing any kind of political/cultural agenda to it is giving too much credit where none at all is due. But if you're going to run around trumpeting your historical accuracy, you should expect to be held to it.
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I believe this to be a form of domestic emotional abuse (the unexplained withdrawing of fatherly love), one that will have lasting effects (not least of all, potentially, upon the daughters' own sexual experiences), and not the sort that gets reported. So, when I read of domestic abuse decreasing when porn is around, I am suspicious of the statistics because they never tell the whole story. Statistics are funny like that.
Is it the porn's fault? Not exclusively, of course not. But is the porn culpable? Absolutely.
It's a tricky one. Would he perhaps have felt exactly the same way without the porn? Who can know? If his preferences are toward teen girls then they are/were probably in his fantasies already.
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But given that it was set in Occupied France not Germany, we were unlikely to encounter Germans who were not Nazis and/or in the German Army.
Yeah but not everyone in the German army was a Nazi. Not all of them deserved to have their brains bashed in with baseball bats as part of a torture aimed at extracting counter-intelligence from others who then have Swastikas carved into their foreheads. And even if they did deserve it, it should not have been done, and would have only served to increase the atrocities that the Germans were already doing. The idea that it would actually scare and unnerve the Germans was just ridiculous. On the contrary it would have made them more vicious, exactly is it did do on the Russian front.
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Completely off topic, but still a revolting piece of shit.
Andrew Williams makes a Facebook funny.
And just to add insult to injury:
"It was a joke emailed to me the other day as a new logo for Auckland Super City," said the Mayor, who is doggedly trying to force the Government to triple its contribution to the national leaky homes repair bill.
"It's funny. I thought a few of my friends would want to see it, so I put it on.
"There is all sorts of stuff going the rounds with Hide in them, and this one actually caught my humour.
"But I'll take it off if people are offended."
Not, please note, "I'll take it off because it's just offensive and stupid and shouldn't have been posted in the first place". Has Three commissioned a new reality show: New Zealand's Hottest Mess of A Mayor?
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And even if they did deserve it, it should not have been done, and would have only served to increase the atrocities that the Germans were already doing. The idea that it would actually scare and unnerve the Germans was just ridiculous. On the contrary it would have made them more vicious, exactly is it did do on the Russian front.
Just to be a history pedant for a moment: the Normandy battlefield was every bit as vicious as the Russian front, with or without provocation. Have a read of Antony Beevor's 'D-Day', if you're interested in the detail.
The journey of the 'Das Reich' division from it's (relatively) safe location in Tolouse, northwards to the normandy battlefield, was marked by a string of atrocities, not least of which was the 'Oradour-sur-Glane' massacre.
He also particularly points out the low numbers of prisoners taken from SS divisions, and notes how unlikely it was that they were all fanatics who would fight to the death rather than be taken alive.
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