Up Front: Does My Mortgage Look Like a Slag in This?
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Yes, it's amazing how we've managed to burn off 22 pages refusing to have a debate.
Jack, it's a statue of a recumbent lion (the lion in Trafalgar Square, specifically), with the ISBN for my forthcoming book on its plinth. I figured that between them, publication and brain surgery were enough justification to spoil myself.
So yeah, you guys have to buy enough books to pay for the tattoo, okay?
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So Susan and I spend years being members of the same pack, and years later when we want to treat ourselves, she gets acryllic nails and I get tattoos. People make very different assumptions about us from an exterior view on the basis of those things, and those assumptions are less than correct.
And yet, I've been secretly wishing for the courage to get a tattoo for years, but I am a total wuss when it comes to needles. I even have the design I want on a laminated card so I don't accidentally destroy it or throw it away.
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I think a laminated card is the best place where to have a tattoo myself.
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It's not 'brave' to say what you're saying. It's not 'common sense'. It's the same tired old shit we've heard for centuries
The line between brave and stupid was ever a fine one ..
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A Jimmy Choo is worth a thousand words?
I can buy a novel for $30 and The Herald (shudder) for less. And last I heard authors got some fraction of a cent a word.
Say .25 cents a word means an average Jimmy Choo is worth about 275000 words!
And something more extreme is worth 1.3 million words
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Sayana - you do know that the needles don't go all the way in, right? Really, it's not that bad - you should be much more worried about the permanence than the pain.
A recumbent lion - that means it's lion down, right?
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Sayana - you do know that the needles don't go all the way in, right? Really, it's not that bad - you should be much more worried about the permanence than the pain.
Yes, I do know that. I never said I was sensible about my issues with needles. :-)
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A recumbent lion - that means it's lion down, right?
C'mon - we've got to draw the lion somewhere.
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C'mon - we've got to draw the lion somewhere.
Just above my right breast.
It's not really like a needle, like a hypodermic needle. It's more like a sewing machine. That's not helping, is it? But Naith is lovely. What are you doing Saturday?
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Not getting a tattoo...
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You see how fucking stupid your argument is, right? If every woman acted demurely and never showed a single ankle, they would still be raped and harassed. It's not 'brave' to say what you're saying. It's not 'common sense'. It's the same tired old shit we've heard for centuries: putting responsibility for crime on women, because you think we're somehow in charge of policing people with penises.
Crime? Harrasment in a bar at 3 am is a hard crime to prove. Chances are high sexually explicit interaction will occur in a public space where adults purposefully meet each other and do so whilst self medicating to lower inhibitions. In a workplace that stuff would be sexual harrasment, but in a bar there is no power dynamic and not much of an intimidation factor so its most times just sexual.
If the lady in the article were a prude and upset by male attention to her tits then she is probably going to believe she is harrassed. But she hasn't been harrassed, she is just a prude.
(Also, team, I have bingo - the centre square was 'what feminists need to do is... [without actually knowing diddly about feminism]'.
Heh. I learned my feminism from TV.
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But she hasn't been harrassed, she is just a prude.
Is it pleasant to exist in an early-1960s mindset? I imagine so.
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JoJo,
If the lady in the article were a prude and upset by male attention to her tits then she is probably going to believe she is harrassed. But she hasn't been harrassed, she is just a prude.
One time I was being such a prude in a bar that I had to punch a guy to make him let go of my arm. Do I need to report how low-cut my top was, to give him some defence for not having heard me say "Leave me alone" three times ?
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Is it pleasant to exist in an early-1960s mindset? I imagine so.
I'm thinking more late Victorian - fits better with the Charge-of-the-Light-Brigade-esque stupidity/bravery wire-crossing going on.
If the lady in the article were a prude and upset by male attention to her tits then she is probably going to believe she is harrassed. But she hasn't been harrassed, she is just a prude.
Tell me, Angus, do you have a harrassment scale we can refer to? Is there some objective chart by which we can measure it? Are you, as an earlier commenter was, telepathic?
It's probably a little late for the anecdatum, but what the hell: the only time I have ever been sexually harrassed, I was on a bus in broad daylight wearing a jacket zipped up to my chin with a backpack on my lap. Clothing has jack-all to do with it.
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I just want to add that at this particular moment I am not a fan of stilettos - and especially those who wear them while trying to sell one a kitchen and ruin the parquet floor .... thus requiring a more expensive kitchen ....
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Did I cancelled my sub for the Listener in June? Yes
Should people wear clothes as they choose? Yes
Should people be free to go anywhere in a public place? Yes
Should people be free to express an opinion differing from the majority in any forum? Yes
Would it be wise to stand at the gate of the Mongrel Mob and shout taunts? Umm No.
Do men or women have the right to make an unwelcome intrusion into other people's space? No
Would it be great for women to go out with other women and laugh and sing and drink ?Yes
Do I champion the rights of free speech? Yes
Do I think that a girl skimpily dressed accentuating her bare body, and entering into dark and lonely space is wise? No. And when my daughter was a teen she chose not to.
Do I have the right to pull the tiger's tail? Would it be wise to do so? -
Do I think that a girl skimpily dressed accentuating her bare body, and entering into dark and lonely space is wise? No. And when my daughter was a teen she chose not to.
Is it okay if she's not skimpily dressed, then? Is it okay if it's a man and he only gets beaten up? Is it okay if she wears a burka? Can you see that what she's wearing is not the problem or point?
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So much to say. @Megan: I doff my cap to you. I think stilettos are thrillingly exotic, but I just can't wear them. Fallen arches and all that. I also think that they're slightly stupid, and very uncomfortable, but they are beautiful and I know that they are bad for us, but they do make your calves look fantastic. Comfort or pain? It was ever so.
@Angus et al: Look, I think you may be getting two things a bit mixed up here. When one is faced with a male person intent on causing one harm, as one has been a few times in the murky past, it really doesn't matter a fuck what one is wearing. Also, many of these people with ill intent are not mentally unstable, they are just pricky fucking bastards who are on power trips. As for young women walking down dark streets who are drunk and scantily dressed, they are not asking to be harrassed. When they put on their finery, intially, they are asking to be admired. If invitations are forthcoming to do more than admire, all well and good. If it is made clear, or if the young lady in question is not capable of being clear, then any advances are to be seen as unwelcome, and inappropriate. If, as is often the case, there is a person who does not understand these rules, and continues to harrass the young lady, then they are in the category of the aforementioned pricky fucking bastard on a power trip. They are not mentally ill, they are not to be excused. It may well be the way of the world that these people exist. This very fact does not mean that it is okay. It does not mean that young women who are in a bit of a state are to be judged as slutty or any other derogatory term. If they are engaging in risky behaviour - being drunk, walking alone - we should only worry that they are risking their selfesteem or their feet. We should not be telling them that they deserve everything that may happen to them. I say this as a woman, in her forties, who has had a number of very close calls when I was walking home alone. I was not drunk. I was not scantily attired. I was simply alone. I do not accept that I was enticing young men to lure me into their cars, or to push me on the ground, or to lock me in their bedroom. I did not ever, in any way, encourage the men who followed me, who threatened me, who felt me up. I was simply there. So excuse me, Angus, if I do not agree with you. -
Do I think that a girl skimpily dressed accentuating her bare body, and entering into dark and lonely space is wise? No. And when my daughter was a teen she chose not to.
So a pub is a dark and lonely space?
Do I have the right to pull the tiger's tail? Would it be wise to do so?
Yeah, she's asking for it.
Women who have breasts are asking for it. Women in church are asking for it. They're all asking for it. (warning, ED, offensive)
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So a pub is a dark and lonely space?
I imagine it could be if you're wearing a burka.
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I imagine it could be if you're wearing a burka.
There's a test: go into a pub wearing a burka, then return wearing a miniskirt, and see which one gets you harrassed faster. It's not gonna be the miniskirt.
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You're also going to struggle to drink that beer. A jilbab or or hijab, though, no problem.
Not that you'd be drinking beer if you were a devout Muslim of course.
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I reread what I wrote. At no point did I suggest that she was asking for it. Some of you seem to be tied that any suggestion of risk being greater, must be some dude trying to justify his attack on a vulnerable woman. Not so! My wife likes to drop the rental car off across town at night and walk home about 15 minutes. I do worry that the risk is greater even in a quiet little town like this. Do I say she is asking for it and therefore it is her own fault if she is attacked? Certainly not! Do I think that there is a greater risk for her? Yes. Would that risk be greater if she wore skimpy clothes and called in at the pub? You say it shouldn't be. OK. I say probably the risk is greater.
How on Earth does "Do I have the right to pull the tiger's tail? Would it be wise to do so?" ,turn into she asked for it??? Different wavelength I am afraid. -
I didn't get my driver's licence , or a car, until i was into my 20s, so prior to that, I walked everywhere, Like, jackie, I had many close calls - the number of times i hid in bushes, walked up someone's garden path like I owned the place, are many. I took to wearing an army greatcoat (in winter!) and tucking my hair up under a beanie, so I passed for a bloke, and I always, always had a rather large hat-pin in my lapel.
See, we end up at an impasse. The ladies are absolutely right, it isn't the gals who need to clean up their acts. And it's nothing to do with clothes. But. It's scary out there, more so now. It's cold comfort being right after the worst has happened.
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How on Earth does "Do I have the right to pull the tiger's tail? Would it be wise to do so?" ,turn into she asked for it??? Different wavelength I am afraid.
Because pulling a tiger's tail is performing a deliberate action which directly provokes a tiger, You're equating that with simply being in a particular, public, place, dressed in a particular way. You're saying wearing particular clothes is performing an action which directly provokes an attacker. Can you see how that becomes 'she was asking for it'?
You say it shouldn't be.
I'm saying, and several of us are saying, over and over again, not that what you wear shouldn't make a difference to your chances of being harassed, but that it doesn't.
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