Speaker by Various Artists

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Speaker: An Open Letter To David Cunliffe

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  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Sacha,

    poodle does not warrant dudgeon (high or low) when it so accurately reflects the relationship.

    Faust, out walking with his pal Wagner meets the devil for the first time in poodle form:

    WAGNER

    It may be that your eyes deceive you slightly;
    Naught but a plain black poodle do I see.

    FAUST

    It seems to me that with enchanted cunning
    He snares our feet, some future chain to bind.

    WAGNER

    I see him timidly, in doubt, around us running,
    Since, in his master's stead, two strangers doth he find.

    FAUST

    The circle narrows: he is near!

    WAGNER

    A dog thou seest, and not a phantom, here!
    Behold him stop--upon his belly crawl--His
    tail set wagging: canine habits, all!

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    A minor party signing a confidence and supply agreement is not a "poodle".

    A minor party - in fact, a solitary man - that depends entirely on another party for its place in Parliament, its continued existence and now for that MP's personal funding, is exactly a poodle.

    The distinction is not hard to grasp.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1330 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    stop humping that chair leg, little seymour

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    Behold him stop--upon his belly crawl--His
    tail set wagging: canine habits, all!

    verily

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    brought up around kuia where calling anyone an animal tended to provoke the kind of dudgeon aimed squarely at one's arse

    ooh, you must have loved your tribe calling the King of Tonga a slug.
    etc, etc ,etc

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Sacha,

    stop humping that chair leg, little seymour

    Trophy of the day ;)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    calling anyone an animal tended to provoke the kind of dudgeon aimed squarely at one’s arse.

    Sorry, my dog is a princess. Any animal on this planet can be treated with respect when they earn it. like all animals, some just wallow in shit. The problem being, some can just be nasty or stupid.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    I really get that the government isn’t shaking down to your taste,

    And this one Craig? You are well aware why this doesn't float our boat and you are well aware for why. We don't like liars and cheats and corrupt Government that promotes and pays staff on our taxes. You would be the first to scream, yes scream, with an almighty holier than thou expectation that we should understand if the shoe was on t'other foot.

    You of all are well aware of the stench. Quit making pitiful excuses for your acceptance of this sewerage embarrassing our Country. But I don't hold my breath. I think you sold out. Just my opinion ,of course. Don't lose any sleep now y'hear.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Trevor Nicholls, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    I really get that the government isn't shaking down to your taste

    The Sanctimonious Craig isn't confined to the Conservative Party, clearly.

    Craig, please enlighten me, is someone righteous like you happy to have someone as your current party leader and prime minister who lies as freely and frequently as John Key does?

    Wellington, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 324 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to simon g,

    A minor party signing a confidence and supply agreement is not a "poodle".

    A minor party - in fact, a solitary man - that depends entirely on another party for its place in Parliament, its continued existence and now for that MP's personal funding, is exactly a poodle.

    The distinction is not hard to grasp.

    I think of it more as 'parliamentary welfare' - corporate welfare, but for politicians.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Ditto I refer locals to Annette King and her office as they are likely to get problems sorted.

    Yes Hilary. if I was to pick someone to restore the heart and soul of the Labour party, Annette’s that leader.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen R, in reply to Trevor Nicholls,

    Craig, please enlighten me, is someone righteous like you happy to have someone as your current party leader and prime minister who lies as freely and frequently as John Key does?

    I find it very easy to imagine a reasonable person voting National because they like National's economic policies, and more importantly because even assuming the allegations in Dirty Politics are true, that a National led government would still be a better government than Labour led government, given Labour's apparent internal divisions.

    I happen to disagree, but that doesn't mean Craig is a monster for thinking so, nor that he automatically approves of everything National does.

    Party politics - it's a package, you choose the best package you can with the fewest dead rats. Different people tolerate different rats.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2009 • 259 posts Report Reply

  • william blake, in reply to Stephen R,

    Dead rat, the National smells more like a dead dolphin.

    Since Mar 2010 • 380 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz, in reply to Stephen R,

    I find it very easy to imagine a reasonable person voting National because they like National’s economic policies, and more importantly because even assuming the allegations in Dirty Politics are true, that a National led government would still be a better government than Labour led government, given Labour’s apparent internal divisions.

    Not on the grounds you set out there. Some "reasonsable" people may vote National because they are scared of change, some may vote National because the policies of other parties would hurt them financially. I didn't see any policy come out from the Nats that looked like an economic game changer. If anything the election result was about the devil you know. But of course until you and I poll the electorate to ask why they voted the way they did, it's pure speculation on our part.

    Any form of collective entity is an amalgam of views and actions. The problem here is that National has refused to condemn the behaviour of which it is accused. Key has belittled those who are critical of National's behaviour. This is not "a few bad apples". This manifests within the PM's office and himself. It is endemic. Choosing to support this package is a tacit acceptance of dirty politics.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Trevor Nicholls,

    Craig, please enlighten me, is someone righteous like you happy to have someone as your current party leader and prime minister who lies as freely and frequently as John Key does?

    I'm perfectly happy to criticize "my party" -- and everyone in it, from the leader on down -- when I think it's warranted. Just like everyone else. It's really not that hard to do it while avoiding dehumanizing and demeaning slurs.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Sacha,

    ooh, you must have loved your tribe calling the King of Tonga a slug.
    etc, etc ,etc

    Of course I do, Sacha. Every bit as much as you love "your tribe" calling National Maori MPs "John Key's little house niggers" -- which was defended by a couple of other ex-MPs turned talk radio shocks jocks, who have the most lovely record of on-air slut-shaming of rape victims.

    If you want to play guilt by tenuous association, we can play. I prefer to operate on the presumption that everyone with a grain of human decency finds Messers Laws, Jackson and Tamihere repugnant.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Stephen R,

    Edit error

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Stephen R,

    National led government would still be a better government than Labour led government, given Labour’s apparent internal divisions.

    A couple of points here. It is not a fact that National would be a better government, even hough that is what they tell us. Labour had 9 years of responsible economic management that left the country in good shape to survive the GFC, bought to you by the likes of Mr Key. National is, simply worse, they cater only for economic growth at the expence of all else, they are virtually a virus.
    The actions of National, as exposed by Hager's book, have led many to believe that a Labour/Green government would be some kind of demonic being hell bent on the destruction of New Zealand and those actions continue, through the MSM, this is simply an illusion.
    So what if there is an internal struggle within Labour after such a defeat, it is neither surprising nor worrying to anyone but the gullible sops of Nationals propaganda machine, thing need fixing after such damage, only a fool would disagree.
    And Craig, it is not a slur to call John Key a liar, it is a statement of fact.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    I'm of the view that Cunliffe has dodged a bullet if the housing bubble manages to pop within the next 3 years. And any criminal prosecutions into Dirty Politics haven't been started yet.

    I also agree with the 2 Steves that people voted for the devil they know, instead of the '5-headed devil'. And I ask again: the NZLP's divisions are undoubtedly real, but how many of them are actual divisions, and how many of them are the fertile imagination of wannabe soap opera writers?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    Attachment

    The reason your person on a low income would pay CGT on a $10K gain in value from selling a house is because it is income.<q>

    Having taken the time to read back of all the responses Lucy, In terms of the what I was looking for i.e something that succinctly defines Labour's new direction, your slogan fits best:

    <q>because it is income

    Sue provided an appropriate subheading:

    In a fair and equal society everyone pays taxes on the money they gain

    A fair and equal for the rich and for the poor, be it income off the gains of the sale of a Flat Bush McMansion or the gains from the sale of a 'non-collectible' family heirloom; it's income. Be it the difference between Roland Callahan being able to afford a new Maserati or the Morrison family being able to afford birthday presents for the kids; it's income.

    As mentioned on the Vision and Dumbassery thread, if I had been able to vote, my vote was tabbed for the Greens, still is unless they pull a Duncan Garner.

    Why the Greens?

    Introduce and progressively increase a tax-free threshold up to $10,000 at the bottom of the income tax scale, simplify rates in the middle bands of the tax scale, and increase the top rates of income tax.

    Why not Labour:

    Labour has quietly dropped two planks of its 2011 election tax policy: a $5,000 tax-free threshold and the zero-rating of GST on fresh fruit and vegetables.

    When Keith discussed this tax-free threshold in 2010, there did at least seem to be some discussion that it could work as George suggested:

    pair it with the introduction of another tax, so you’d be revenue neutral.

    i.e. a CGT. So in 2014 by keeping the CGT and removing the tax-free threshold, Labour became the all stick and no carrot party. At least for those of us on incomes below $5000.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to mark taslov,

    Why the Greens?

    Didn't the Greens reduce the tax free threshold to $2,000 in the end?

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    if the housing bubble manages to pop within the next 3 years

    I’m interested Deepred, when the housing bubble pops, given the stats are so skewed by the prices in one city, what are the forecasts for the average nationwide percentage drop in value? Especially

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Didn’t the Greens reduce the tax free threshold to $2,000 in the end?

    I can’t find a specific figure here Gio, I don’t have the luxury of being in a position to turn my nose up at any tax free threshold whatsoever, so that number may mean more to some than others, for me the reduction from $5000 to $2000 would still mean the difference between paying 5% or 10% of my 4k income, on top of GST and any CGT that might come my way. the consideration alone speaks volumes.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    I thought that they went down from $10k to $2k was quite significant. I'm pretty sure it's the case as I had a conversation with Norman about it on Twitter during the campaign.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    It is significant as a monetary figure, but Labour’s reduction from $5000 to 0 is arguably more so, at least wrt to the political philosophy of the party. Implementing a $2000 tax free threshold appears more realisable in an MMP Government. Any money at all is more than I can shake a stick at.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

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