Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: An Open Letter To David Cunliffe

David Hood

Thu, 16 Oct 2014 09:30:06 +1300

Wellington Central, here is the full list in descending order.
"Wellington Central","LAB",0.860532623754756
"Selwyn","NAT",0.853458716249911
"Ōhāriu","UFNZ",0.843278540869174
"Rongotai","LAB",0.841374666000478
"Ōtaki","NAT",0.835599879117558
"Helensville","NAT",0.833741176470588
"Rodney","NAT",0.826168067579181
"Waitaki","NAT",0.822897699056448
"Dunedin South","LAB",0.82235811281337
"Mana","LAB",0.82204298672863
"Waimakariri","NAT",0.821925279520044
"Hutt South","LAB",0.820796042841273
"Port Hills","LAB",0.820739219712526
"Rangitīkei","NAT",0.817216427027535
"Hunua","NAT",0.815557519316611
"Napier","LAB",0.813083074189249
"Tāmaki","NAT",0.812631299617434
"Mt Albert","LAB",0.81024380609625
"Rimutaka","LAB",0.810115002613696
"Bay of Plenty","NAT",0.808763534522681
"Dunedin North","LAB",0.808687445329405
"Wairarapa","NAT",0.807214920300299
"Taranaki-King Country","NAT",0.807122657335954
"Kaikōura","NAT",0.806961747675031
"Palmerston North","LAB",0.806234046041076
"West Coast-Tasman","LAB",0.806103968697596
"Nelson","NAT",0.806072891591706
"Northland","NAT",0.803234804517029
"Tauranga","NAT",0.802902107688002…

Brent Jackson

Thu, 16 Oct 2014 09:19:58 +1300

Assuming that the percentage of the electoral roll that voted corresponds to real differences in the electorates, it would appear that Labour wins three distinct types of electorates.

Sacha

Thu, 16 Oct 2014 01:01:45 +1300

bravo. who is the red dot on the right?

David Hood

Thu, 16 Oct 2014 00:45:02 +1300

I was up later than I really should have been working out how to make this graph

mark taslov

Tue, 14 Oct 2014 16:55:03 +1300

Nanaia Mahuta to contest Labour leadership!

Joe Wylie

Mon, 13 Oct 2014 22:26:14 +1300

Let’s see where this goes…

…I have heard it said, that a Little goes a long way…

SHREK: Well, let me put it this way, Princess. Men of Farquaad's stature are in short supply.

DONKEY: Oh no, Shrek. There are those who think little of him.

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 13 Oct 2014 22:11:52 +1300

Let’s see where this goes…
...I have heard it said, that a Little goes a long way...

David Haywood

Mon, 13 Oct 2014 22:06:31 +1300

I realise it has been a couple of weeks since numbers were being bandied around in this thread, but here is my election contribution, showing my working.

https://github.com/thoughtfulbloke/nzelect14

Thank you, David – extremely interesting!

Sam F

Mon, 13 Oct 2014 16:05:14 +1300

Does he endorse, or is that the kiss of death?

Andrew Little. Let's see where this goes...

Sacha

Mon, 13 Oct 2014 15:24:48 +1300

Cunliffe appears ready to quit

yep

Sue

Mon, 13 Oct 2014 14:21:17 +1300

WOW so he is now going to sit back and be a good little backbencher
if only he had just sat back post election, let the review happen and then resigned

Sadness

simon g

Mon, 13 Oct 2014 13:22:33 +1300

So, Cunliffe appears ready to quit: press conference at 2 pm.

Does he endorse, or is that the kiss of death?

David Hood

Mon, 13 Oct 2014 08:42:01 +1300

I realise it has been a couple of weeks since numbers were being bandied around in this thread, but here is my election contribution, showing my working.

https://github.com/thoughtfulbloke/nzelect14

mark taslov

Sat, 11 Oct 2014 17:15:42 +1300

And not a candidate.

…yet…

the brains

Joe Wylie

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:32:05 +1300

The Rabelaisian wit of David Lange:

...he saw that they did cause burn their regents alive like red herring, saying, Now God forbid that I should die this death! for I am by nature sufficiently dry already, without heating myself any further.

François Rabelais, Gargantua and Pantagruel

Joe Wylie

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:16:44 +1300

David Lange joked that Clark “was so dry she was combustible”

Those wet & dry 80s, when it was said of Thatcher that if it was wet she believed she could walk on it.

mark taslov

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:09:01 +1300

This is an interesting read from the time capsule, how things have changed.I’m enthused by what Little has to say, also:

1988 Labour prime minister David Lange joked that Clark “was so dry she was combustible"

Ideally Little could work closely with Parker to stave off any fire hazard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmy3CGl6GvA…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 17:36:04 +1300

he comes across dry and dull; a most unlikely prime minister.

Oh come on! The man likes The Clash, The Smiths and Woody Guthrie. ;)
It is also said ,he's a good debater. That can help anywhere. Dry and dull is just an opinion so that don't really matter unless…

Joe Wylie

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 09:46:54 +1300

As the huffle dies down, I’m liking David Parker. Straight bat, no bullsh*t, decent. And not a candidate.

Not to mention his willingness to work constructively with potential allies.

Rob Stowell

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 09:30:31 +1300

What about that Andrew Little, eh? ‘Pundits’ (Bryce Edwards at least) saying he could walk through the middle into the job. But while he seems a sharpish political operator, he comes across dry and dull; a most unlikely prime minister.
As the huffle dies down, I'm liking David Parker. Straight…

Kyle Matthews

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 11:39:27 +1300

I guess I can’t tell the difference cognitively. Walks like a Nat, quacks like one.

The hair is very right wing as well.

mark taslov

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 21:43:40 +1300

Nicholas Shepherd shares his opinion on the fears.

The fears are that an openly gay parliamentary leader might fail to connect with Maoridom

Quite distinct from the connection likely to be enjoyed with that paragon of enlightenment: the Pakeha

BenWilson

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:44:14 +1300

Dunne was a Labour MP from 1984 – 1994. Never been National Party

Heh, I actually knew that, too. But someone argued so blue in the face the other night to me that he had always been a Nat that it caused mental interference. I guess I can't tell the…

Sacha

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:28:37 +1300

Imagine an Australian type scenario where they have the Liberal-National coalition.

If it were two parties in an MMP coalition minus overhangs, yes. Just as Labour could easily become an ongoing coalition of an urban liberal and a working bloke party if their current factions insist. Oh, the right already…

Kyle Matthews

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 15:04:05 +1300

think it could be done. Imagine an Australian type scenario where they have the Liberal-National coalition. National here includes both groups of that party – they could create a Country party and they would win all the rural electorates if they told their supporters too vote Country MP and National…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 10:14:02 +1300

Hospital pass...
Or would it go Tea Party over why the catch of the day is off the menu?
Maybe that's why National created that job for Shane Jones?
A Heat Sink...

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 09:42:31 +1300

If the global boycott really did go ahead, how would middle NZ react? Would it wake up to what’s happening on the seas? Or would it go Tea Party over why the catch of the day is off the menu?

The Govt would spend 3 weeks blaming Labour. Middle NZ…

Kumara Republic

Tue, 07 Oct 2014 00:00:19 +1300

Thanks DeepRed, that’s the one. The Japan Times ran the same article pretty much word for word.

Still no mention of it in the NZ media yet.

If the global boycott really did go ahead, how would middle NZ react? Would it wake up to what's happening on the seas?…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 23:36:15 +1300

Boudaries have always suited National here. I don't know whether through deliberate gerrymandering or just the urban/rural split (I'd like to think the latter). In 1993 National got 35% while Labour got 34.6% and yet National got 5 more seats. The Alliance who were on Labour's left got 18%. On…

mark taslov

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 23:04:19 +1300

This is what I found so incredibly stupid about killing off Mana. It’s like Labour don’t have a tactical bone in their bodies.

If Russel Norman could also please drop the ensuring ‘IM lost the election for the left’ routine that would be smashing. Green kept all its seats and…

Trevor Nicholls

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 18:15:52 +1300

Because 1-0 is "far in excess of" 51-49.

Chris Waugh

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 18:11:14 +1300

On that basis you’d have to reject the result of every election that is held for a single position, unless it was unanimous.

Why?

Brazil is heading for Round 2 of its presidential election. France and (I believe) many other countries have a similar system: If no candidate wins a…

Trevor Nicholls

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:59:36 +1300

I would if the majority given is far in excess of the majority polled

On that basis you'd have to reject the result of every election that is held for a single position, unless it was unanimous.

BenWilson

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:44:09 +1300

I wouldn’t call giving a majority party a majority of seats “gaming the system”.

I would if the majority given is far in excess of the majority polled.

ETA: And that’s also on the proviso that you even accept a party getting much less that 50% of the cast votes…

linger

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:38:34 +1300

(Today we get gerrybrownleeing instead: making living conditions in an electorate so unbearable that opposition voters decamp to other regions.)

Trevor Nicholls

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:37:05 +1300

OK, well I have been misinformed. Ignore me :-)

bmk

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:35:52 +1300

Historically, despite occasional huge majorities for one side or the other, electoral boundaries in NZ have always been drawn by balanced committees, haven't they?

Boudaries have always suited National here. I don't know whether through deliberate gerrymandering or just the urban/rural split (I'd like to think the latter). In 1993…

Trevor Nicholls

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:35:33 +1300

Which is not theory, it's what happened, over and over

I wouldn't call giving a majority party a majority of seats "gaming the system". Gaming the system requires a party receiving fewer total votes getting a governing majority. As far as I can recall NZ has only once had a…

bmk

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:30:12 +1300

Indeed as repeatedly happened in NZ.

All electoral systems can be gained to some extent; some more than others. And as far as I can see MMP is what works best for us considering we seem to be wedded to the idea of having a local MP. I think the…

Trevor Nicholls

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:29:40 +1300

gerrymandering

Oops you're right. (Have you ever lived in America?)

Fortunately that never really happened in this country but yes it could, with political appointments to the judiciary and electoral commission.

Historically, despite occasional huge majorities for one side or the other, electoral boundaries in NZ have always been drawn…

BenWilson

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:29:38 +1300

I guess that is the solitary advantage of FPP, it’s hard to see how that could be gamed.

It's super easy to game. You only have to beat the opposition by a little bit everywhere and you can have a massive overwhelming landslide. Which is not theory, it's what happened,…

BenWilson

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:28:02 +1300

TBH, I think the idea that any large party could split into an electorate party and a list party, and come through an election successfully preposterous. I

Obviously they would do it in a much more subtle way to start with, until people got used to the idea, as they…

linger

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:22:55 +1300

hard to see how [FPP] could be gamed
FPP was very easily gameable, on a grand scale, by gerrymandering: redrawing electorate boundaries to encompass regions in which you know your party has a narrow majority. Result: you win more than half the electorates, without needing half the total vote. (Meanwhile,…

Trevor Nicholls

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:18:50 +1300

Yes, the system can be gamed. I guess that is the solitary advantage of FPP, it's hard to see how that could be gamed.

I'd like to see the threshold disappear. I'd also suggest that for a party to appear on the party voting paper it has to field electorate…

bmk

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:09:15 +1300

You could make MMP more proportional by reducing the threshold, which many people here are in favour of.

TBH, I think the idea that any large party could split into an electorate party and a list party, and come through an election successfully preposterous.

I'm strongly in favour of reducing…

Keir Leslie

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:09:13 +1300

If you're really that terrified by overhang seats, you can always give everyone else compensatory top up seats to restore proportionality.

Kyle Matthews

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:03:46 +1300

Just how else do you fix the inherent problem in MMP that almost by its design it can be gamed with parties deliberately creating an overhand and thus wrecking the proportionate basis of it?

MMP is currently less proportional via the 5% threshold to a much greater extent than it…

bmk

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 17:00:32 +1300

If a party wins electorate seats then they are entitled to them. That's democracy for you.

I do get what you are saying and I guess it's true in a way. However, if the purpose of MMP is to have a strictly proportionate parliament then overhang wrecks it. I guess…

Trevor Nicholls

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 16:50:21 +1300

if a party wins more electorate seats than they were entitled too

If a party wins electorate seats then they are entitled to them. That's democracy for you.

BenWilson

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 13:37:35 +1300

Although I temper that by saying that it's far less broken than what we had before.

BenWilson

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 13:20:31 +1300

if the major parties were to majorly game it in the manner Ben proposes then MMP ends up fundamentally broken.

Yes, and I suggest that because a major party is already gaming it, it is already quite broken.

bmk

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 12:56:04 +1300

You can't do that to MMP, you'd have basically killed the mixed member component of it, which is pretty core. Electorate MPs make up over half our parliament, you can't unelect them because someone else in another electorate did better, that's screwed up democracy.

You might as well just go…

Kyle Matthews

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 12:34:30 +1300

I think in the long-run MMP needs to be fixed. No threshold. No overhang – if a party wins more electorate seats than they were entitled too then they lose whichever electorate seats they won by the smallest margins until they are reduced to their correct proportion.

You can't do…

BenWilson

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 12:11:36 +1300

In the long run could be 20-30 years at the pace that electoral reform moves. And typically it only actually reforms at all in response to it clearly not working. What I'm reading in that reasoning is that National will only do it so long as it's just barely enough…

bmk

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 11:34:38 +1300

I’m not sure that they’ve thought it through, really.

I remember reading David Farrar saying that the National Party had spent a lot of time considering it but always backed out for the reasons above (my memory may be faulty though). Labour would copy them, there would be a huge…

BenWilson

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 11:27:33 +1300

Just in case it's not clear what a cock punch is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_xuf9KjmcA

"The blow that strikes to the core of a warrior's strength, against which there is no defence".

BenWilson

Mon, 06 Oct 2014 11:20:41 +1300

There’s a much simpler reason it doesn’t happen. National and Labour have long known they could do this scheme. But it would lead to a massively overhung parliament with neither party better off (since both doing it) and the public’s faith in the system would be completely eroded.

I’m not…

David Hood

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 22:33:30 +1300

I'm only just settling down to pick through the election results, but it is clear Kiwi's understand MMP. The electorate winner in that respect is Ōhāriu, outdoing even Epsom, as at a minimum half the voters must have split their vote (the theoretical maximum for all electorates is mostly near…

linger

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 21:30:35 +1300

Thanks DeepRed, that’s the one. The Japan Times ran the same article pretty much word for word.

Jack Harrison

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 21:07:16 +1300

The already have. They leave Auckland whenever they can to their holiday homes, a home just for holiday, that’s way cool.

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 21:02:41 +1300

Gareth Morgan explains my point incredibly well. It’s maths fuckers, do the maths.

I particularly liked this:

We might also see people and businesses relocating to other regions in search of a better lifestyle. Now that would be a revolution!

Something that actually could begin to address poverty levels nationwide.

Kumara Republic

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 20:56:05 +1300

And it's just made the news here in Japan (of all places!) that New Zealand is about to face trade sanctions over the lack of measures to protect Maui's Dolphin and its habitat.

Link to official article:

* AFP – Boycott threat over rare New Zealand dolphin

linger

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 20:52:24 +1300

dead dolphinAnd it’s just made the news here in Japan (of all places!) that New Zealand is about to face trade sanctions over the lack of measures to protect Maui’s Dolphin and its habitat.

Jack Harrison

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 20:45:58 +1300

We need innercity apartments that are worldclass for warmth and sound isolation and warmth isolation , solely targeted and exclusive to the first home buyer.

Jack Harrison

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 20:40:56 +1300

Gareth Morgan explains my point incredibly well. It’s maths fuckers, do the maths.
Epsom , do the maths. Enjoy the masses coming your way.

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 20:34:13 +1300

We need skyrise apartments

Yep, and hopefully catering well to the variety of needs, from experience, at least in terms of inner inner city, 45m2 is more than sufficient for a single individual, 60m2 comfortably accommodates a couple and 90m2 is more than enough for a 3 person family etc.…

Kumara Republic

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 20:33:04 +1300

If we are going to build up Auckland, the first social housing needs to be in Epsom.

Irrespective of what you think of him, Gareth Morgan is on to something with his piece on why gutting the RMA is attacking the symptom. And the 'commenter on Crampton’s article' is probably…

Jack Harrison

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 20:22:23 +1300

The inner city needs to be re developed to accommodate the new chaps. It’s central and is the most efficient place for Aucklanders to live. Capitalism needs organisation. We need skyrise apartments with nice prices and government help in all inner city suburbs. Auckland City. The New York of the…

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 20:16:29 +1300

They’d certainly be in keeping with New Zealand’s anglophile climate, with a heck of a lot more soul than what goes on here. As you mentioned earlier, if mega-city is what they want they certainly need to get cracking on something pronto.

Jack Harrison

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 20:01:25 +1300

If we are going to build up Auckland, the first social housing needs to be in Epsom.

Buy up those inefficient cold villas and put up in brick two-up, two-downs, London style. The best house I’ve ever lived in was in London. Quiet and warm.

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 19:58:54 +1300

Surely its got to the point of rort that would involve a real removal of capital initiative from multiple home owners. This is the real political correctness. You are not allowed to say to the multiple property investor that their investment is a risk.

I couldn’t agree more, and this…

Jack Harrison

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 19:49:14 +1300

At some times social concerns and…

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 19:41:25 +1300

What policy would you write?

With only a few minutes to do so:

As well as increasing the top income tax rate, I’d go with something similar to one of those CGTs above that are multiplied with the individual’s marginal tax rate as per SA, Can, Mol.
Ideally in conjunction…

Jack Harrison

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 19:34:27 +1300

Auckland will have a landed class and a non-landed class, the latter never sure of its residency. Until this shocking socially irresponsible economic house price jacking stops. It's time this rort was stopped for the hard reality of renting in Auckland and the obvious generational social reasons.

Jack Harrison

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 19:19:11 +1300

What policy would you write?

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 19:13:34 +1300

almost of the income of the very wealthy comes from capital gains

In the interests of aiming that weapon more squarely at the very wealthy:

Canada:
(Capital gain x 50.00%) x marginal tax rate = capital gain tax

Ireland
every person has an exempt band of €1,270 per year.

Lithuania:…

Jack Harrison

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 18:49:01 +1300

“almost of the income of the very wealthy comes from capital gains. That’s why CGT is so progressive.” – marks link

Yes, Capital is (are) your playing card(s).

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 18:46:05 +1300

Found it, giving the benefit of the doubt, Russel may have felt Kyle Church had answered, not an ideal exit strategy, but given the platform it’s deft enough, I obviously don’t agree with Ross Sélavy Brighton that it’s “meaningless”, though it could for all intents and purposes be construed that…

Jack Harrison

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 18:19:50 +1300

I think the vision is to have a super powerful mega-city that could rival Melbourne or Sydney for capital potential , a political capital with a film industry and farming.

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 18:11:11 +1300

the Broken Window Fallacy, or a form of the Shock Doctrine.

Thanks Deepred, The East Cape economic miracle.

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 18:05:28 +1300

it was a distinct turn to the right to abandon or scale back the measure.

Yes Gio, there’s no question in my mind that the whole spectrum is on a starboard course. On this tack, under MMP, where minor parties can promise the world, compromises like the Greens made may…

Kumara Republic

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 18:03:57 +1300

Perhaps this is being too cynical. but when SH 2 was blocked around the Devil's Elbow in 2012, it occurred to me that rather than making a genuine effort to permanently remedy this ongoing issue, the Government may have done a cost analysis, and reached the conclusion that intermittently requiring…

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 17:56:27 +1300

the obvious strategy of a small island run by a government bereft of ideas.

giovanni tiso

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 17:54:02 +1300

It is significant as a monetary figure, but Labour’s reduction from $5000 to 0 is arguably more so, at least wrt to the political philosophy of the party. Implementing a $2000 tax free threshold appears more realisable in an MMP Government.

Nonetheless, groups advocating $10,000 tax-free threshold following the raise…

Jack Harrison

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 17:39:34 +1300

The housing market could continue in Auckland for 10 – 20 years. It's seems to be perfectly placed to be blasted by the property industry. The perfect storm.

It's a sure thing with its population projections and it looks good to a government because it gives the image of money…

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 17:36:15 +1300

giovanni tiso

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 17:24:37 +1300

I thought that they went down from $10k to $2k was quite significant. I'm pretty sure it's the case as I had a conversation with Norman about it on Twitter during the campaign.

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 17:14:51 +1300

Didn’t the Greens reduce the tax free threshold to $2,000 in the end?

I can’t find a specific figure here Gio, I don’t have the luxury of being in a position to turn my nose up at any tax free threshold whatsoever, so that number may mean more to some…

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 17:09:06 +1300

if the housing bubble manages to pop within the next 3 years

I’m interested Deepred, when the housing bubble pops, given the stats are so skewed by the prices in one city, what are the forecasts for the average nationwide percentage drop in value? Especially

giovanni tiso

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 17:02:19 +1300

Why the Greens?

Didn't the Greens reduce the tax free threshold to $2,000 in the end?

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 17:00:53 +1300

The reason your person on a low income would pay CGT on a $10K gain in value from selling a house is because it is income.

Having taken the time to read back of all the responses Lucy, In terms of the what I was looking for i.e something that…

Kumara Republic

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 16:35:00 +1300

I'm of the view that Cunliffe has dodged a bullet if the housing bubble manages to pop within the next 3 years. And any criminal prosecutions into Dirty Politics haven't been started yet.

I also agree with the 2 Steves that people voted for the devil they know, instead of…

Steve Barnes

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 10:29:42 +1300

National led government would still be a better government than Labour led government, given Labour’s apparent internal divisions.
A couple of points here. It is not a fact that National would be a better government, even hough that is what they tell us. Labour had 9 years of responsible economic…

Steve Barnes

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 10:26:40 +1300

Edit error

Craig Ranapia

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 09:56:11 +1300

ooh, you must have loved your tribe calling the King of Tonga a slug.
etc, etc ,etc

Of course I do, Sacha. Every bit as much as you love "your tribe" calling National Maori MPs "John Key's little house niggers" — which was defended by a couple of other ex-MPs…

Craig Ranapia

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 09:17:11 +1300

Craig, please enlighten me, is someone righteous like you happy to have someone as your current party leader and prime minister who lies as freely and frequently as John Key does?

I'm perfectly happy to criticize "my party" — and everyone in it, from the leader on down — when…

Dismal Soyanz

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 09:16:51 +1300

I find it very easy to imagine a reasonable person voting National because they like National’s economic policies, and more importantly because even assuming the allegations in Dirty Politics are true, that a National led government would still be a better government than Labour led government, given Labour’s apparent internal…

william blake

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 08:24:52 +1300

Dead rat, the National smells more like a dead dolphin.

Stephen R

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 07:59:49 +1300

Craig, please enlighten me, is someone righteous like you happy to have someone as your current party leader and prime minister who lies as freely and frequently as John Key does?

I find it very easy to imagine a reasonable person voting National because they like National's economic policies, and…

mark taslov

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 04:56:26 +1300

Ditto I refer locals to Annette King and her office as they are likely to get problems sorted.

Yes Hilary. if I was to pick someone to restore the heart and soul of the Labour party, Annette’s that leader.

Kumara Republic

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 02:17:11 +1300

A minor party signing a confidence and supply agreement is not a "poodle".

A minor party – in fact, a solitary man – that depends entirely on another party for its place in Parliament, its continued existence and now for that MP's personal funding, is exactly a poodle.

The distinction…

Trevor Nicholls

Sun, 05 Oct 2014 00:10:29 +1300

I really get that the government isn't shaking down to your taste

The Sanctimonious Craig isn't confined to the Conservative Party, clearly.

Craig, please enlighten me, is someone righteous like you happy to have someone as your current party leader and prime minister who lies as freely and frequently as…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 23:38:04 +1300

I really get that the government isn’t shaking down to your taste,

And this one Craig? You are well aware why this doesn't float our boat and you are well aware for why. We don't like liars and cheats and corrupt Government that promotes and pays staff on our taxes.…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 23:32:38 +1300

calling anyone an animal tended to provoke the kind of dudgeon aimed squarely at one’s arse.

Sorry, my dog is a princess. Any animal on this planet can be treated with respect when they earn it. like all animals, some just wallow in shit. The problem being, some can just…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 23:26:52 +1300

stop humping that chair leg, little seymour

Trophy of the day ;)

Sacha

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 23:04:00 +1300

brought up around kuia where calling anyone an animal tended to provoke the kind of dudgeon aimed squarely at one's arse

ooh, you must have loved your tribe calling the King of Tonga a slug.
etc, etc ,etc

Sacha

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 22:59:09 +1300

Behold him stop--upon his belly crawl--His
tail set wagging: canine habits, all!

verily

Sacha

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 22:58:15 +1300

stop humping that chair leg, little seymour

simon g

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 22:44:15 +1300

A minor party signing a confidence and supply agreement is not a "poodle".

A minor party – in fact, a solitary man – that depends entirely on another party for its place in Parliament, its continued existence and now for that MP's personal funding, is exactly a poodle.

The distinction…

Joe Wylie

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 22:43:08 +1300

poodle does not warrant dudgeon (high or low) when it so accurately reflects the relationship.

Faust, out walking with his pal Wagner meets the devil for the first time in poodle form:
WAGNER

It may be that your eyes deceive you slightly;
Naught but a plain black poodle do…

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 22:39:09 +1300

poodle does not warrant dudgeon (high or low) when it so accurately reflects the relationship.

Well, I'll look after my dudgeon (whatever level it settles at) and you take care of yours. I really get that the government isn't shaking down to your taste, but you better get used to…

Sacha

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 22:08:45 +1300

poodle does not warrant dudgeon (high or low) when it so accurately reflects the relationship.

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 22:05:05 +1300

I was most taken with the ‘Poodle’ reference when Linda Clark
unleashed it on election night – I’m guessing she was referring to British terminology which very adultly has it as

Well, I've heard Ms. Clark referred to in canine terms that are considered, at best, somewhat vulgar when applied…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 22:03:51 +1300

how about you stop calling Dunne and Seymour “poodles”

Oh pileeze. If not poodles, lapdogs. Oh look over there

> Flavell just became flavour of the month. So. 1,2,3,4 Parties. Ain't no monster. Only got 4 heads. Whatevs. :)

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 21:52:14 +1300

Accompanied by more than one commentator saying “go away, you’re not one of us.”

My comment is because she was being smug and rude. In good faith (we all have no problem with Ranapiaismania) she would be welcome. To denigrate us for being involved is insulting so I'll give back…

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 21:50:06 +1300

Julia noted...
i d by name
i d by nature
that's me...

I was most taken with the 'Poodle' reference when Linda Clark
unleashed it on election night – I'm guessing she was referring to British terminology which very adultly has it as:
Poodle: a person or organization considered to…

andin

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 20:02:51 +1300

infantalizing diminutives
There's always scrounger

mark taslov

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 17:55:14 +1300

Hell yeah Ian, all these lectures all the time, it’s all we ever get from you, lecture this, lecture that, and on ‘manners’ of all things, my body aches from dodging all your lecture. Enough with these lectures Ian! And no more infantalising poodles!

These are adults. (4/10/2014)

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 17:46:37 +1300

NO THEY DIDN"T….. more like 30% ish of registered voters.

Yeah, and 82% of registered voters still didn’t vote for Labour, so I think that dead horse has well and truly been flogged into well-ground dog meat.

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 17:42:47 +1300

They can no longer govern alone – but can (and have ) made a gov’t as ‘dog walkers’ with the poodles – Seymour and Dunne, lapping up any affection sent their way…

Ian:

The next time you feel like lecturing me (or anyone else) on manners, how about you stop…

mark taslov

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 17:06:03 +1300

Oh you mean the fiction we build around ourselves…Not the connection I was referring too.

Absolutely Andin, I hoped the Yoda clip wouldn’t have been too opaque. I get fully method with these threads, and try not to break character, what’s the narrative here:

Jamesy doesn’t like Davy, Davy’s gotta…

SocialMindedKiwiGuy

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 15:32:28 +1300

Consulted the Tarot. She foresaw Cunliffe going 'Aguirre' and floating his own raft. What a salvo that would be; more ivy rash for Don Key and Joyce to scratch and an instant 20-25% boost for Labour.

SocialMindedKiwiGuy

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 15:09:38 +1300

Speaking of '25% parties', the Nats without Key are surely level pegging with Labour, and I can't imagine a substantial coalition deal falling to the RHS anytime soon... Most of Key's coterie have been stood down and reinstated over the last 6 years. Sans Key, this must entail a sizeable…

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 14:42:16 +1300

just always remember the Donkey
...it's a 'bray new world' we live in...

andin

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 14:30:08 +1300

the wonderful John Key

Oh I'll just always remember the Donkey!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTXiWQITb_0

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 14:26:30 +1300

The coagulation coalition?
...the coolness of Key
isn't that supposed to stop bleeding noses?

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 14:15:33 +1300

National loses one seat!
we need to accept that (almost) half the country voted National.
No longer
– final vote count gives:
– one more Green MP added
– one fewer National MPs

They can no longer govern alone – but can (and have ) made a gov’t as ‘dog…

SocialMindedKiwiGuy

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 14:10:11 +1300

Shared leadership has been great for the greens. Bearing in mind all the failed mutineers and their post labour parties over the last thirty years, and that we're not likely to see another Norm Kirk any time soon, I'd prefer if Shearer and Ardern were to make a go of…

william blake

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 13:59:33 +1300

Half the country? I make it one third, heaps of peeps didn't vote at all.

Kracklite

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 13:46:43 +1300

We are okay having our discussions in the open.

Accompanied by more than one commentator saying "go away, you're not one of us."

simon g

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 10:50:16 +1300

Are you Graeme Edgeler? :)

For the purposes of debating the problem (and thus, solutions), we need to accept that (almost) half the country voted National.

After all, 99% of the country didn't vote for John Key. But that kind of straw-clutching gives us high levels of irrelevant accuracy, and…

Steve Barnes

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 10:40:50 +1300

I realize half the country voted National,
NO THEY DIDN"T..... more like 30% ish of registered voters.

Steve Barnes

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 10:38:44 +1300

Oh mi god, just got home.And welcome home, where have you been?, Planet Key?
You will feel quite strange at first, you know, all this reality an' stuff but you will settle down, hive mind an' all that. You must be feeling quite smug though as everybody here, apart from…

simon g

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 10:35:00 +1300

I assume there's a good dose of sarcasm in Anna G's post. Nobody could write

I embraced the coolness of Key

with any serious intent. Sure, I realize half the country voted National, but although there are many plausible reasons why, "coolness" would not be on the list.

John Farrell

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 10:11:29 +1300

I wonder which of the trademe messageboard national supporters you are?

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 09:41:18 +1300

All your other hand-wringing and blame and conspiracy theories and bickering all simply serves to emphasise Mr Dann’s points and gives substantial momentum to the claim that the wonderful John Key deserves at least four terms.

So you popped in with your head stuck firmly in the sand (and somewhere…

andin

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 09:17:20 +1300

In terms of my suggestion, feeling connected to the Beehive, to the politicians as actual eating and shitting people just like us, and being empowered by that, influenced by the effort they could make to connect with us, debate us, listen to us, learn from us and adapt to us:…

Sacha

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 07:56:06 +1300

Duncan Garner has reckons.

mark taslov

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 03:24:15 +1300

Of course, he was referring to the factional discord, orchestrated and exploited by the destructively ambitious Cunliffe.

For someone who’s embraced the coolness of Key, you don’t seem to place a lot of stock in what he says:

David Shearer was actively undermined by his deputy, Grant Robertson, Prime Minister…

mark taslov

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 02:52:15 +1300

And on the Twitter:

I’m up to the point where some guy called Mark slags me off for about two pages worth of comments for not “fronting” to him #CommentsDelayed

I had no issue with you not fronting to me James. As I said:

If James were to front up…

anna g

Sat, 04 Oct 2014 02:24:24 +1300

Oh mi god, just got home. Some good friend out told me to look at your site and take in all the massive paralysis by analysis that's spewed forth in response to a straight-up, heart-felt letter/plea from James Dann.
What a jumbo load of shit you mostly all spout except…

mark taslov

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 22:31:52 +1300

Cunliffe has been George MCGoverned

Yep, I’m with you there, he has, and if not before Sept 20th then most certainly after, and as painful as that may be for him to come to terms with, it is in all but the most unlikely of circumstances, irreversible.

Jack Harrison

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 22:25:34 +1300

Cunliffe has been George MCGoverned. The press don’t relate to him. Trivial bastards but still always keen for a “Gotcha”.
Every night of the week if possible. Controversy drives readership and the individual press want their stories rocking t.v and ratings.

It’s a writing team looking for gossip. D.C and…

krothville

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 22:22:19 +1300

And the MSM, are they going to want to associate with him anymore, especially after his attempt to sue a large part of it?

They will associate with whomever they believe will give them the hot stories, juicy, seedy stories, because that's what they've proved themselves interested in, not the…

mark taslov

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 22:13:55 +1300

Grant can talk but so can Cunliffe. I am concerned that with the centering of both Labour and National, that the “fear of the unknown”, “devil you know…” campaign that John Key ran, was an unprecedented success. I worry that attempting to trump Key’s soothing dulcet tones with Grant’s soothing…

Jack Harrison

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 21:47:48 +1300

It's not his game, it's the game. Calm the fuck out of the press pack with charm,wit and policy. Grant could be great t.v for Labour and to win an election you need 51% of a supportive block so hung up orientation non-believers can be marginalised. Can Grant talk?

mark taslov

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 21:25:05 +1300

That is certainly the direction that the MSM has lead things Jack, and that was my basic reasoning in suggesting MSM-free (Keyless) live, team, debating, tours, to spite the MSM, I guess in an attempt to lead the country in another direction, the object being to hopefully leading the country.…

Jack Harrison

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 21:11:59 +1300

We run presidential campaigns now, yes. Muldoon style. Bush style, Mitt style, it's all about the face.

mark taslov

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 20:51:19 +1300

I dont want too get too deep

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLrpBLDWyCI

Connected to the hub, to the people and personalities that defined our culture, in a nutshell, finally connected to rest of our country, beyond it merely being a place we’d only ever get to see on TV or out a car window,…

andin

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 20:44:27 +1300

Andin assumed
You assume too much young sir
We felt connected.
But too what? I dont want too get too deep but everything is connected
Right I'm off for a pedicure

mark taslov

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 18:16:27 +1300

Awesome stuff Ian. And to be very clear I have not suddenly become obsessive about Muldoon as much as campaign strategies, and so I was a little concerned to open the victor’s link, but Knowledge bro. Thank you.

The first thing that grabbed me about Muldoon’s town hall meetings was…

glidergirl sarah thomas

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 12:58:14 +1300

I actually think your open letter is a weak minded attack on Cunliffe, it is not a brave move to air “your” feelings and assume to know Cunliffe’s aspirations in such a public way , it is simply a way to kick a man further down, like the role of…

Jack Harrison

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 11:17:41 +1300

The "grim face or power" is a good watch. According to Sir George Chapman it took "six weeks" of debate to decide Muldoon over Jack Marshall in 1974.

Top table changes are heavy affairs. In the private sector the clash of egos , the removal of rivals and the forming…

Sacha

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 10:08:03 +1300

that would be the conservative part of the left, I'm guessing.

giovanni tiso

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 10:01:01 +1300

To be fair, it is the darling theory of a number of left-wing middle-aged men, Chris Trotter in primis.

Kumara Republic

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 09:48:37 +1300

I can only surmise that this is a paternalistic narrative put forward by people who claim to really know the interests of Māori and Pasifica people.

Or it could be a cynical attempt at divide-and-rule of low-info voters, straight from the Lee Atwater or Karl Rove book.

bmk

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 09:43:15 +1300

ETA: I'm pretty sure the whole idea is wishful thinking, though, because the old guard would not have the courage for it.

There's a much simpler reason it doesn't happen. National and Labour have long known they could do this scheme. But it would lead to a massively overhung parliament…

BenWilson

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 09:38:35 +1300

I can only surmise that this is a paternalistic narrative put forward by people who claim to really know the interests of Māori and Pasifica people

The way I usually hear it, the working class is white and male. The way I usually see it is that the working class…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 09:36:29 +1300

rising dump...
...'royal flush'
Fluush Tooilet?
Luuxury Lad!
Luuxury...

I were there,
in the cold,
crumpling old sewing patterns
waiting, listening, straining
in the dark,
there were I...

Here's the 'David Cunliffe and the long drop from the top' thread back...

:- )

DexterX

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 09:26:51 +1300

All these details are in the policy document which has been sitting on the Labour website for months..

Would have helped if Cunnliffe had read it – me thinks.

HORansome

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 09:23:01 +1300

Indeed. Given that the region people seem to think has the most conservative support for Labour, South Auckland, seems to have no trouble giving support to marriage equality and queer MPs, I can only surmise that this is a paternalistic narrative put forward by people who claim to really know…

giovanni tiso

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 09:11:37 +1300

And a split might also help with that wee problem about the conservative homophobic working class / liberal academic middle class

Is there a compelling reason to deal with imaginary problems?

Joe Wylie

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 08:55:10 +1300

the ’60s and ’70s were a very different proposition from the ever unwrapping present, we embrace.
Only a few major entertainment& information sources;
Within five years of the first regular TV broadcasts in NZ Wellington was experiencing the phenomenon of a 'royal flush'. Viewers of the one and only channel strained…

BenWilson

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 08:49:31 +1300

And a split might also help with that wee problem about the conservative homophobic working class / liberal academic middle class not seeing eye to eye on all things party leadership.

Yup, these two tiny groups need not be in the room together, sucking out all the oxygen with their…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 08:21:07 +1300

Cameron Conference Rap
Ice flows, man!
Brill!

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 08:14:14 +1300

All the young Turks...
The problem is that I’m too young to remember, I don’t know how ‘Meet the People’ really went down or worked logistically, so I hoped it would jog someone’s memory.

I don't jog through there that often...
but the '60s and '70s were a very different…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 08:02:02 +1300

Craig could you please pull back from calling anyone who has a different perspective than yours on Cunliff’s decisions “disingenuous” or “naive” it’s mean.

I'm genuinely sorry you think that Sue, because I don't think someone making a bad argument (IMHO & YMMV, of course) is ipso facto a terrible human…

william blake

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 07:52:42 +1300

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBumQHPAeU

mark taslov

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 07:47:00 +1300

Oddly, almost the complete opposite Andin: The easily digestible abridged early morning cut:. "With a hostile media […] to side-step this media interference” […] ”filling halls throughout the country” […] ”provincial” […] “road test"

Careful with them clippers.

andin

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 07:38:33 +1300

productions like ‘L&P Top Town’, or ‘It’s in the Bag’ united New Zealand in some strange intangible way.
OOOOO.. a political television show that unites a country. Now that'll be a first!
Hmm, I think my toenails need clipping, excuse me... wont be a mo'

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 06:58:40 +1300

the Association of Free Associaters...
....you’ve posted more than two dozen marginally relevant or completely off topic comments
Shucks, I do that all the time – I didna realise it was illegal – I always figure people are nimble of mind and wit...
...and ya have to say some of…

mark taslov

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 03:55:46 +1300

I’m going to leave it there.

I can appreciate that, The doco has it’s moments; Bob Jones recounts the story of a cocktail party at his place where PM Bob Muldoon happened to – for whatever reason – strip naked, chasing Bob Jones’ sister around the house, ending up with…

mark taslov

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 03:37:52 +1300

As for the puppet master politics slur, this:

But Cunliffe avoided answering, turning the topic instead to Labour’s broader tax plan. His advisers told media in the break that the tax would not apply to the family home oif it was in a trust.

It’s time to road test this…

WH

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 03:35:21 +1300

I actually did see your suggestion that the Labour Party model itself on Robert Muldoon.

I'm going to leave it there.

mark taslov

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 02:55:29 +1300

But yeah, no worries, whatever you’re into. One of those two dozen posts was a response to your:

This is an unfortunate diversion,

With regards to me taking up Deborah’s offer to answer a question unsolicited.

When I later recommended “The Grim Face of Power” to you and name checked…

mark taslov

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:50:53 +1300

Responding to Deborah who had of her free will offered and taken the time to discuss Labour’s CGT I missed my edit window to include the link with ‘models’ in my final thanks, I considered giving it a miss, but I found that the German CGT’s €801 exemption was along…

WH

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:29:43 +1300

Mark, you've posted more than two dozen marginally relevant or completely off topic comments. You've already been warned by the moderator. If you want people to think that you are deliberately derailing this thread, by all means carry on.

mark taslov

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:25:17 +1300

I quite like the sound of this:

In January 2009, Germany introduced a very strict capital gains tax (called Abgeltungsteuer in German) for shares, funds, certificates, bank interest rates etc. Capital gains tax only applies to financial instruments (shares, bonds etc.) that have been bought after 31 December 2008. Instruments…

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:24:29 +1300

And we’re really going to bring Dirty Politics into it? If you want to go there, Kyle, I’ll ask whether that label is better applied to people who only respect the rules when they find it politically convenient to do so.

I'm not aware of anyone not following the Labour…

Sue

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:22:26 +1300

Craig could you please pull back from calling anyone who has a different perspective than yours on Cunliff's decisions "disingenuous" or "naive" it's mean.

I don't know anyone who wanted Cunfliff to resign on the night, nor do i think there are many here who wanted it either. So not…

mark taslov

Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:01:25 +1300

Thanks Deborah that’s good enough for me, more than enough to chew on for the next couple of years. Compared to some of the models, one advantage I hope could assist with regards to a more nuanced CGT localisation is New Zealand’s relatively low population.

Deborah

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:50:16 +1300

I am in no position to say what Labour will or won’t do with respect to the CGT. All I know is what is written in the policy, which is freely available on the Labour party website, and has been for months. I never said that Labour was exploring this…

Deborah

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:47:38 +1300

The Australian CGT was inflation indexed, but it proved to be absurdly complicated, so inflation indexing was abandoned, and instead, only half of any capital gain is subject to the CGT (NB: in Australia). Capital gains (in Australia) are taxed using ordinary old tax rates. This is one way of…

mark taslov

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:47:14 +1300

It would be possible to put in some sort of exemption like that, but there are big technical difficulties with doing it.

So you mean Labour won't continue to explore this avenue?

Deborah

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:42:44 +1300

You've misread what I wrote, Mark. It would be possible to put in some sort of exemption like that, but there are big technical difficulties with doing it. No such exemption is in the proposed CGT. Instead, there are exemptions for family homes, and long held small businesses (per my…

mark taslov

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:35:58 +1300

Exactly what collectables are is yet to be defined,

Yes. It is a problem in terms of providing examples that may not be collectables, it was a difficult call whether or not to include “pedigree dog” in mine.

Yes, it could be possible to put in some some of low…

WH

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:34:15 +1300

The theory that Cunliffe is solely responsible for Labour's defeat or even its main cause seems outlandish to me.

I agree with a version of this argument, but am willing to listen to the feedback people like James and Stephen received during the campaign as well.

We're not clairvoyant, so…

mark taslov

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:26:06 +1300

Thanks Lucy, I hope my post just above further illustrates my thinking, feel free to tear my suggestion apart, as what most interests me here, is how the CGT can be sold to the masses with a built in tax cut/ exemption for those at the bottom of this heap.

Deborah

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:23:29 +1300

Collectables are exempt. Exactly what collectables are is yet to be defined, but there's plenty of precedent to follow from other tax jurisdictions. So that particular exemption is in place already.

Yes, it could be possible to put in some some of low level exemption. For example, one way of…

Trevor Nicholls

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:22:09 +1300

No, it really isn't

OK, truth or dare. Are you happy with a party leader and prime minister who lies as freely and as frequently as your current party leader and prime minister?

mark taslov

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:15:14 +1300

Thanks Deborah, I understand you probably feel a bit of regret for offering now, And I have recently gone through the policy on the website in some detail, and now have a degree of familiarity with what is exempt. Perhaps I’m asking the impossible actually. I’m not sure who originally…

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:12:27 +1300

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:58:59 +1300

I'm going to try to wade in to answer your question, Mark, though my Labour Party membership has expired and I had no part in devising the CGT policy.

The reason your person on a low income would pay CGT on a $10K gain in value from selling a house…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:56:34 +1300

That’s setting a pretty low standard for leadership of a party, and a person who wants to be prime minister Craig.

No, it really isn't. I've been a member of the National Party for twenty years, including several years as an elected officer at electorate and regional Young Nats levels.…

mark taslov

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:54:06 +1300

Perhaps Craig, but you know, looking at the rules Sacha linked to, I’m impressed by the degree of organisation. These expectations for Party members as stated in the Herald aren’t dissimilar to expectations one might adhere to in most professional meeting environments, and the Herald’s website/Quin combo:

"posted by Phil…

Deborah

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:48:20 +1300

Actually, I've gone quiet on it because I don't want to threadjack this discussion, and by the time I got back to the thread in the morning, other people had answered the questions you raised, so there was no point in me making the same answers.

Notable exemptions – family…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:42:25 +1300

More unwanted headlines, of what benefit to the Party Mr Quin?

Maybe it's of considerable benefit to the public to get some insight into how The Party that would really like to be The Government one day operates.

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:41:06 +1300

I wish more people would get really clear about what they are prepared to support and what they aren’t and then act accordingly.

If the fucking party cant get their shit together what's the fucking point. We are seeing selfish posturing and it aint about the Party.

mark taslov

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:14:18 +1300

So you’re unhappy with the Labour party policy because it would increase the tax take from John Key from under two hundred thousand, to almost a million dollars per year.

No Kyle. I’m not unhappy about that. I’m unsatisfied that there is no notable exemption threshold for those eligible for…

Sacha

Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:11:04 +1300

central locking