OnPoint by Keith Ng

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OnPoint: Dear Labour Caucus

954 Responses

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  • Paul Williams, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Yeah, elections bring out the partisan in him. They do in me too.

    Chardonnay is meant to be the consolation, I gather :)

    Pink Gin too.

    But on the issue of a voice/constituency for class, I'm picking Jan Logie to be very effective.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I understood that Giovanni was pursuing a line of argument, one he’d introduced. I was disappointed that he seemed unwilling or unable to modulate his style when it was evident that someone else was upset, and that, rather, he seemed to express some pride in it.

    I was extremely irritated by what appeared to me to be an extraordinary (and self-serving), level of preciousness. Good to see that Damian can be hurt (and you can be hurt), but that other emotions aren't allowed. And now Emma wasn't even referring to me when she called me an arsehole. So good of her to take ten pages or thereabouts to clarify that, then.

    Clearly, I’m an ideological failure

    Yes, that is totally what I meant by "there aren't many communities like PAS to begin with". And it is also what I meant by writing over 7,000 comments on PAS. It was all subtly aimed at pointing out your personal ideological shortcomings - as indeed I have done in a number of forums over the years. I'm sure it wasn't the opposite.

    This has just moved beyond a joke. If people would be kind enough not to involve me in this argument any longer, I'd like to go home now.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Okay, I'll leave it there. I did genuinely try and explain how I was feeling, but apparently I was only displaying an extraordinary and self-self-serving level of preciousness.

    Merry Christmas and a fine summer to you and yours, sincerely.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22849 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    Nope sorry I don't want that to be the last note in this thread. I don't really understand what is going on here, words are being said that are hurtful for no reason that makes sense to me. It doesn't matter if they are said sarcastically or ironically they are still hurtful.

    I've said this almost every year here in one form or another
    Russell …
    You have created and hosted a wonderful community here. I have benefitted from the voices of the people you have brought here in ways that very few will understand. I am deeply and sincerely appreciative of the effort and honest care, even love, that you Russell have brought to this site.

    May your holiday season be a wonderful and happy one.

    Thank you.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4460 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Oh fantastically well said Bart, thank you, thank you, thank you!

    < /said without prejudice to any of the parties to the disagreement>

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    I'm all right, but I was feeling tired and distressed on Monday, in part because I thought I should have handled things better in a thread I wasn't enjoying but also didn't feel able to ignore.

    On the upside, it's a shining day and my lovely workmates and I are going for curry after our final Media7 recording for the year. Knowing those workmates, it won't stop with the curry. They make me go out with them, honest.

    Also: if you missed it on t'other thread, donations towards our dev costs were about $3000. Given that we're unlikely to see payment on other fronts for some time, that's been really helpful. I'm very much looking forward to launching the food blog in Feburary now.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22849 posts Report Reply

  • James Francis, in reply to Paul Williams,

    Seconded. Thirded.

    St John's, Newfoundland • Since Nov 2006 • 121 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    'Fight Chasing Arsehole’ should be the next big X-Box game.

    For the record the issue of media bias against basic Labour Party principles (Unions, the minumum wagers and the dolecitizens) was introduced to me in a University paper in 1991. There is a media problem with these principles, maybe because they are so modern media unsexy and in the union case, a long time, well defined enemy of National Party progress.

    Business is very much potrayed as a white shining knight full of bright lights with the only ideas or ways that will lead to true stability. We have strong business news sections everywhere. Sure business collapses are reported with vigour but that's because the stories are always tragic.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Paul Williams,

    I don't think that's entirely fair. I can't see him walking away from National any time soon, but he's also publicly criticised them on various matters.

    I did say principles. I said nothing about the vehicle he's chosen...

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    Employers' and manufacturers' lobby group Business New Zealand has injected a little spirit of the Grinch into the Christmas edition of its ManufacturingNZ newsletter, which highlights "three types of people to fire immediately."

    Taken from the financial news agency Bloomberg's Business Week publication, the article suggests that "victims", "non-believers" and "know-it-alls" are the three types of people that businesses should show the door to.

    I wish we had a Daily Show. Merry Xmas.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    David Shearer's Opening Address-in-reply.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2110 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    Well, actually, I liked it. Thanks for the link.

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 559 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Cecelia,

    Me too - reasoned but with a kick of passion behind it and kicking it to the Nact-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell, in reply to Cecelia,

    Yeah, I kind’ve liked it too. I want to like Shearer. When he’s getting raggy on the Nats, I like him.
    But I find his ‘new’ vision of smart green jobs and industries a little borrowed, and a little blue :)
    Can we pull lots of people out of poverty with ‘smart’ market jobs and education? We’re no good at ‘commercialising’ our genius? Couldn't you almost hear Joyce saying some of these things?
    Since Gio ain't here to ask the question- How is Shearer’s vision for NZ ‘left’?
    We have growing and shameful inequality in NZ. I don’t think there’s any way to halt it that doesn’t involve turning away from ‘the markets’ for some straightforward old-fashioned wealth redistribution.
    Sharing it round- there’s an idea!

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2110 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    <q>for some straightforward old-fashioned wealth redistribution.
    Sharing it round- there’s an idea!

    O please tell me more - because, as far as I know, this has never actually happened in AotearoaNZ?

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • rjal, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Oops, sorry Russell. I hadn't intended that to be interpreted as being directed at anyone in particular. I just thought a semi-humorous tale of my big comprehension fail might take a little heat out of the discussion at hand, that and I wanted to acknowledge that I found Steve's comment really helpful -- a point I'd neglected in my first comment.

    I understand your position, and if I was you I would be feeling aggrieved too. Feeling aggrieved about a situation that has played out badly, especially one that you think you could have handled better, can rankle for a long time.

    I'll bow out of this thread for now, although, I might post something on topic in a couple days if it's still going.

    I think you do a fantastic job here, and I think you've created something here that's pretty special. Enjoy tonight.

    Since Dec 2011 • 7 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    Funnily enough I've just watched Inside NZ, Inside Child Poverty on TV on Demand. It hit me hard.

    Shearer is placing a lot of emphasis on the issue of poverty.

    And in advocating clean, green and clever jobs he is distancing himself from Shane Jones' pro-mining stance!

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 559 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    Shane Jones.... What was that 'fresh' front bench again? :)

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2110 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    Since we're posting addresses in reply... Russel Norman's excellent speech, invoking (of all things) Jesus, at length.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia, in reply to George Darroch,

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1112/S00167/russel-normans-address-in-reply-speech.htm

    Your link went to the Jakarta Times or something so I've included the above. A great speech, a better speech. Long. Got a bit dazed in the economic section. Can we listen to these speeches on line?

    Interesting that he linked to Michael Joseph Savage - it's almost as if he is the default leader of the opposition. I don't know how the political media works but if I wanted to get an opposition sound bite on an issue I think I'd go to Norman not Shearer. Hmmmm.

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 559 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    The Bash Street kids return...

    addresses in reply

    How do we disabuse John Key and co of the notion that Parliament is a forum for really bad stand up comedians - I caught a small portion of Key's response to Shearer's speech, it was a tirade about the Labour party's internal workings, a very sad indication of his level of debate - he seems to think he has a mandate to blither on pointlessly rather than to prove why he should be our nation's leader.
    And they wonder why we have a bullying problem in New Zealand!
    Oh yes, it will be a long, long, long three years...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • JLM, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    If Shearer can sit on Mallard and other interjectors hard enough to get Labour to maintain a dignified silence in the face of such juvenile ad homs (hard call, I know) they’ll both show Key up, and improve parliamentary behaviour astronomically.

    Judy Martin's southern sl… • Since Apr 2007 • 241 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to JLM,

    If Shearer can sit on Mallard and other interjectors hard enough to get Labour to maintain a dignified silence in the face of such juvenile ad homs...

    Let's all write them and ask them to...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    How is Shearer’s vision for NZ ‘left’?
    We have growing and shameful inequality in NZ. I don’t think there’s any way to halt it that doesn’t involve turning away from ‘the markets’ for some straightforward old-fashioned wealth redistribution.
    Sharing it round- there’s an idea!

    Rob, I read this speech as identifying an urgent need to reduce poverty, retain assets and create meaningful work amongst a number of other things. I'm not sure what you particularly mean by "left", however those few goals are, IMO, vastly different from what National aims too do and entirely consistent with Labour's values.

    I'm not at all averse to more "sharing it around", I do however want to see policies that will grow the economy also and I agree with Shearer that increasing tourism and intensifying dairying are not the answer.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to JLM,

    maintain a dignified silence

    and the Greens showed last term that good behaviour in the House is not punished by voters.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19743 posts Report Reply

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