Hard News: The Spiral of Events
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This was the comment Danielle took exception to, not Steve's follow-up.
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WH,
I hasten to add that noone at PA frequently uses sexual and scatalogical references in their writing that could be construed as ignorant or offensive.
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Ok. Suze, could we decide on the narrative here: Are the media whores or pimps, rapists or nymphos who worship power?
slavering like hounds on a hunt.
I thought her dog analogy was most appropriate for her interpretation of events.
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This was the comment Danielle took exception to, not Steve's follow-up.
I happened to think as Suze did because both comments were highlighted. So thanks Deborah:-)
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I made a comment a few months back concerning the so called power crisis. At the time I called it a beat-up. Last Wednesday there was a headline in t' Herld claiming that Kiwi-saver was creating chaos and the IRD, that is also a beat-up trying to smear Kiwi-saver. The people complaining about Kiwi-saver were, according to t' Herld, accountants, note it was not the IRD themselves.
The, so called, Power Crisis was championed by TV3's John Campbell but also took up considerable space in t' Herld. The people claiming there was a power crisis? hard to pin that one down but it flared across the house from the National benches. Those in the know in the Power industry were quick to dispel fears of blackouts pointing out that you cannot, truly and honestly, guarantee supply, this was picked up by National as "Labour, after nine years in power, have done nothing to guarantee security of supply"
This business with Winston is just another part of Nationals campaign, a campaign that has no policy, a campaign that relies, solely, on the destruction of your opponent. If they win with this strategy they will be elected without clear mandate, they will be able to do what they damn well like.
Chris Trotter's table thumping style wins him few friends in the modern world, he's so 70s people power revolutionary, but he did reveal something that we should bear in mind when considering Winston's plight.“There’s a big pot of money out there to get Peters this time - big money.”
And you will find, if you look hard enough, that the big money is linked to the "Wine Box"
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So has anyone figured out what Owen Glenn is all about? Seems to have plenty of money to throw around, a bad memory and fancies a title - is that it?
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I happened to think as Suze did because both comments were highlighted.
That's my bad - I was in a hurry. I really don't have a problem with 'ewww, that person is unappealing' humour, but I do most definitely have a problem with the other remark. Not because it's 'sexual' or 'scatological', WH - I don't give a fuck about the 'offensiveness' or otherwise of Craig's hilarious metaphors. I *do* care about sexism and gendered insults, though, and that one was a doozy. It combined women and sex and shame in a tidily icky package, and it wasn't cool with me.
That is all.
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Thanks Deborah, yeah, I had read that initial comment about J Shipley opening her legs, etc. But I don't believe that metaphor is misogynistic, either.
Craig
I see the media neither as whores nor pimps. It's not that sinister. They are just a group of people captured by their own narrative. The media is a big dumb beast. -
I’ve got to thank you for this wonderful innovation in blogging — usually the trolling goes on in the comments. You do it up front.
I'm beginning to think that as well. Does he have ads to sell or something?
(Sorry, Adblock means I never see them...)
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I hasten to add that noone at PA frequently uses sexual and scatalogical references in their writing that could be construed as ignorant or offensive.
<waves> Hi, I'm Craig and I'm a potty-mouth! But even I've got limits, and I do try to keep 'em pointed and (more often than not) directed at my own sweet self, with a healthy dose of self-mockery as a chaser. Speaking for myself I'm quite happy not to extend my metaphorical sensorium to the vagina of Jenny Shipley, Helen Clark or any other female politician past, present or future...
I'll call Trotter out on comparing the Press Gallery to gang rapists for the same reason I'll call out anyone who compares Helen Clark to Stalin or Robert Mugabe (or John Key to a fascist or Nazi, come to that). Not because I particularly esteem the objects of the attack, but because the analogy is so far over the top it cheapens and trivialises things that shouldn't be pimped out to score rhetorical points.
Anyhow, as I said I saw Jenny Shipley a while back and she's looking and sounding the best I've ever seen her. If part of her post-politics beauty regime is regular carnal acrobatics with Burton. Well, you go girl!
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So has anyone figured out what Owen Glenn is all about? Seems to have plenty of money to throw around, a bad memory and fancies a title - is that it?
Ian Wishart did a piece back in February in which he, after quite good research, came up with a lot of tenuous links and assumptions. I wouldn't take it on face value but it could be a good place to start your own research.
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WH,
I wouldn't have said what Trotter did, neither the gang rape or the multiple personality remarks added anything worthwhile. I could be wrong, but I sense that Trotter both respects I/S and disapproves of the well understood excesses of Winston Peters' politics.
I'm just saying that Trotter shouldn't be reduced to his mistakes - his writing is generally interesting - to dismiss him by placing emphasis on his most easily criticised remarks makes for misleading and shallow discussion.
For what it's worth, I always enjoy your work Danielle.
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Teaspoons.
All I ever do is try to empty the sea with this teaspoon; all I can do is keep trying to empty the sea with this teaspoon."
I used to have nightmares like that (or should I say NightHorses for fear of sounding sexist ;-) ) and I feel a bit like that now. I wish you guys would look at the bigger picture, with regard to Nationals campaign, instead of jousting with some perceived daemon.
Here's an interesting bit of background on Lynton Crosby and Mark Textor from The Guardian 2005.One Labor candidate received £34,000 in damages in 1995 from Mark Textor, Crosby's business partner, and others after suggestions that she supported abortions at nine months. Textor, who is offering informal advice to the Tories, had deployed "push polling", a US tactic of spreading damaging information about opponents under the guise of questions.
But Wait, there's more...
The poster message looks as though it has been scrawled in lipstick.
"How would you feel if a bloke on early release attacked your daughter?"In another, the blonde, sensible-looking teacher looks accusingly at the camera. There is extensive bruising around her eye and a cut to her lip.
"Under Labour it's not just pupils that get bad marks," reads the message.
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Trotter is a provocateur who sometimes goes over the top and sometimes IMHO gets it completely wrong. His writings seem to come directly from the id. Generally, though, I find his opinions stimiulating. Columnists with a brain are rare.
Deborah
I am obviously a cruder person than you, but no less a feminist.
Do you think those descriptions back in the day of Blair bending over for Bush (with the implications of sodomy) are men-hating? -
Gay bashing. One way to insult a man is to imply that he's gay. Nice, huh.
I never said you weren't feminist, Suze. Perhaps you could do me the courtesy, and you too, Steve, of not telling me how to do my feminism.
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I wish you guys would look at the bigger picture
Heh. The centre square on the bingo card: 'don't you have something more important to worry about?' I am perfectly entitled to decide for myself what I think the 'bigger picture' is, thanks. And so is every other person here.
(I don't even *like* Jenny Shipley, goldarnit.)
Do you think those descriptions back in the day of Blair bending over for Bush (with the implications of sodomy) are men-hating?
No... those are homophobic metaphors. (How is that not obvious?)
Thank you, WH. :)
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Oh, I'd like a 'Don't Tell Me How To Do My Feminism' badge! (It would have to be kinda big, though.)
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Perhaps you could do me the courtesy, and you too, Steve, of not telling me how to do my feminism.
And oerhaps you could do us all a favour and try and stick to the topic rather than turn this thread into another of your "Man Hating" trolls. But then you are so much more importrant than the rest of us aren't you?
I'm over it. In the words of our esteemed host "Goodbye!" -
another of your "Man Hating" trolls. But then you are so much more importrant than the rest of us aren't you?
Dude, that was a totally awesome flameout! It's not often we get to the real nitty-gritty-honesty so fast! I salute you.
It's real simple: if you don't want us to be offended by sexist remarks, *don't say them*.
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Perhaps you could do me the courtesy, and you too, Steve, of not telling me how to do my feminism.
And oerhaps you could do us all a favour and try and stick to the topic rather than turn this thread into another of your "Man Hating" trolls. But then you are so much more importrant than the rest of us aren't you?
I'm over it. In the words of our esteemed host "Goodbye!"Steve, if you read an analysis of loaded, inappropriately coarse metaphors as the work of "Man Hating" trolls then you reduce your role in this discussion to that of a blustering fool.
The use of metaphors that imply sexual compliance, sexual force, sexual preference all set out to denigrate far more than they set out to describe.
The coarse nature of this sort of metaphor is one objection, the misogyny another, the homophobia yet another - but the image can be reduced down to an (often unrelated to the original point) attempt to create an image that seeks to humiliate someone. It's an ad hominem argument reduced to the most puerile, sophmoric level. And it doesn't even make sense unless you consider man - woman sex as something a man does to a woman and a woman has done to her, and man - man sex as something vile and degrading. Both acts become shorthand for a childish personal attack disguised as a jokey argument.
All permutations of sexual innuendo used as insult are an insight into a person's attitude towards sexual behaviour. People are described as "dickless" or "impotent" is powerless - yet a woman who can still do it by "spreading her legs" and "just lying there" is also "powerless".
So is being able to perform the act synonymous with power or powerlessness? It depends on your point of view. Any man I've had sex with, I've always considered it something I was doing to him, but then I was raised like a boy and had very male attitudes.
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Dude, that was a totally awesome flameout!
It's so good it makes me feel all warm inside.
Well said, Danielle, and Dyan - fantastic analysis. I'm still giggling, so I haven't had a chance to have a coherent thought about it.
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I live at altitude in a place called Mounting Women.
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I live at altitude in a place called Mounting Women.
Is that anywhere near Dickhead Central?
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Dude, that was a totally awesome flameout!
It's so good it makes me feel all warm inside.
Well said, Danielle, and Dyan - fantastic analysis.Yes, and reading it was priceless, but not totally unexpected lol
And also thanks, talk of push-polling earlier reminded me of something I had completely forgotten: I was on the point of leaving the house a few weeks ago when a caller whom I assumed was push-polling rang. The question was something like "Are you very concerned about P endangering/creating havoc/whatever in the community?"
I gave her a friendly earful "No, I was at Nicky Wagnr's Methcon meeting the other night and am more worried about the way politicians and their friends create spin and fear in the community like that and by having you ask questions like this. And tell John Key to say something intelligent about cannabis. Drunk drivers are by far the scariest on the road. " I hope that was the best ranty she got all evening. It just flowed out, a 'make my day' moment too.
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