pledged to replace it with a serious campaign finance law.

Out of genuine interest Craig – can you point me towards anything on this? Policy would be grand but even just something about the key points he thinks need addressing?

Because I'd like to see that happen myself.

So, why did it get headline billing? Because Key tried to play tricks....

I kind of agree with you, Fletch. Given Duncan's track record, I'd have just said "I know your game, and you're going to have to play with yourself." Or the Reader's Digest version – "Fuck off, Double…

So, why did it get headline billing? Because Key tried to play tricks....

Duncan Garner, "John, have you just had a meeting with Lord Ascroft?"

John Key, "I beleive someone from the…

Craig, the story was raised by you, at 6.24 above. If you're going to define "bullshit misdirection" as "responding to a comment by Craig Ranapia"...

Simon: Like everyone else around here, I have a reasonable expectation of being quoted or paraphrased accurately and fairly. I don't think anyone could reasonable…

Speaking of the Police ... Howard Broad asks Parliament for 'direction' (unprecedented) on his 'draft' plan to introduce Tasers…

Which is why you should leave the shamless bullshit misdirection to the professionals, Simon.

Craig, the story was raised by you, at 6.24 above. If you're going to define "bullshit misdirection" as "responding to a comment by Craig Ranapia", then find me guilty. It's a shame you so often feel…

Clark organised that story? And put it top of the bulletin? Damn, she's good.

Which is why you should leave the shamless bullshit misdirection to the professionals, Simon. She is good at it.

If Garner manages to find any evidence that Lord Ashcroft and Key are colluding to breech campaign…

Key is opposed to that law, and has pedged to repeal it.

Yes, Simon. And also pledged to replace it with a serious campaign finance law.

Meanwhile, Lord Ashcroft isn't just a nasty foreign "rich prick" who has (shock horror!) donated large sums of his own money to political parties…

Key said: "it wouldn't be possible for him to give anyway – he's an offshore entity."

Key is opposed to that law, and has pedged to repeal it.

As for Ashcroft's "courtesy call", you do protest just a little too much.

No, Simon, I thought it was rather pathetic watching Duncan Garner fishing for a scandal that just isn't there — which he's done to both National and Labour in the past.

He has donated to the Tories…

As for Ashcroft's "courtesy call", you do protest just a little too much. He has donated to the Tories in Australia and Britain,…

And dare I say it, "Obamagate" and Duncan Garner's…

right, where were we? A person who loves all life will search out a proper environment for the starfish, and then gently reintroduce them. Because there are starfish & starfish

I see sort of ecological and environmental sensibility as being important in three different ways: first the recognition that we are…

One hopes she doesn't go like Jenny Shipley, spreading her legs for anyone who could promise another month, another week, another day in power.

While it is unnecessarily…

Who was Pancho Villa then? See, I've been so impressed with Craig's literary recall, i took it as fact. :)

Can this help you Kerry? Gotta keep your eye on Mr Ranapia:-)

Thanks, Sofie :) I looked him up on wiki and wondered if he inspired Zorro (my hero) but…

I'm too shy to be one of the women's XV but I'm cheering you on from the sidelines.

On the issue of Mr Trotter and his ridiculous metaphor, followed by an even more ridiculous attack on The Hand Mirror, as Craig has already retold, I find it intriguing that he was called on his inappropriate rape analogy by David Farrar, by…

Then there's that vile urine-colored beer that's supposed to be accompanied by a slice of lemon, when it's obvious that even a slice of beetroot would improve the wretched stuff. That's what Michael Laws reminds me of – flat warm Corona beer with beetroot. Thanks Craig.

My nomination for comment…

Pancho Villa/Sancho Panza, Yes Craig, All us Hispanics look alike! ;-)

OK, I don't deserve to ever live that down – but, ouch! :)

That'd be Sancho Panza.

Bah... quite right.

There's a nice saying from Voltaire – "The greatest crime is to do nothing because we can only do a little."

Well, actually, he didn't say that. He said something in French that meant that.

Anyway, I think it's a worthy retort to critics who fling…

Can anyone point me to a more Blog friendly abbreviation dictionary, than my Macintosh inbuilt?

Actually, Wikipedia's quite good for that sort of thing.

I live at altitude in a place called Mounting Women.

Is that anywhere near Dickhead Central?

Probably, Dickhead Central is a popular place to live in 'Straya.

Meanwhile, could someone remind us why Laws resigned from Parliament again?

Oh me, ask me, I know... but was it lying about his…

IMO) I have to admit, I don't know what that means.

.And, PAS can also mean Pretty and Saxxy, IMO,
WTF? OMG! I STFU :-) or :-( or :-0 or ;-) or % )(happy,sad, surprise,kidding and cross eyed) so SNAFU ;-)

AT WHAT POINT has the media become our moral conscience? The answer is: never.

Indeed it has been my experience that most individuals who work within the industry suffer the same morality…

IMO) I have to admit, I don't know what that means.

In my opinion. Although I much prefer your dictionary's definition. (I never said that! I was simply quoting the International Maritime Organisation!)

Can anyone point me to a more Blog friendly abbreviation dictionary

The Urban Dictionary for this kind…

Can't have art impinging on one's precious politics can we.

Oh, Joe, if you're going to pull that one you better buy me dinner first and promise to call me in the morning. Are Shylock and Fagan two of the greatest characters in the cannon of English literature. In my…

The PM is not accountable to the leader of the opposition, nor to an immature press gallery. The PM is accountable in the first instance to the principles of natural justice and in the second instance to the people of NEW Zealand.

Agree.

The Press is a fundamental institution of…

I really feel queasy about people who think playing fast and loose with seriously loaded imagery like that is an acceptable mode of campaigning having any influence over legislation that might just have a serious impact on my life.

Can't have art impinging on one's precious politics can we.
I'm…

The Press is a fundamental institution of democracy…

The PM is not accountable to the leader of the opposition, nor to an immature press gallery.

Well, that would be wrong. I thought that one of the critical features of the Westminster style of parliament is that the job of the opposition is to hold the government to account.…

Different metaphor, same thought, Kyle. I like the domesticity of teaspoons.

Anyone who has ever worked a day in their life KNOWS implicitly, you NEVER open your mouth until you know what the shot is.

It would have…

Do you think those descriptions back in the day of Blair bending over for Bush (with the implications of sodomy) are men-hating?

Hum... I can't speak for Deborah, but I find it (blackly) comic how supposedly 'progressive' types went to town caricaturing Blair either getting sodomised by Bush, or licking…

Chris Trotter's table thumping style wins him few friends in the modern world, he's so 70s people power revolutionary

Hmm. I think Trotter is as much old left as new left.

All I ever do is try to empty the sea with this teaspoon; all I can do is keep…

It's so good it makes me feel all warm inside.
Well said, Danielle, and Dyan – fantastic analysis.

Yes, and reading it was priceless, but not totally unexpected lol

And also thanks, talk of push-polling earlier reminded me of something I had…

Is that anywhere near Dickhead Central?

Dude, that was a totally awesome flameout!

It's so good it makes me feel all warm inside.

Well said, Danielle, and Dyan – fantastic analysis. I'm still giggling, so I haven't had a chance to have a coherent thought about it.

And oerhaps you could do us all a favour and try and stick to the topic rather than turn this thread into another of your "Man Hating" trolls. But…

another of your "Man Hating" trolls. But then you are so much more importrant than the rest of us aren't you?

Dude, that was a totally awesome flameout! It's not often we get to the real nitty-gritty-honesty so fast! I salute you.

It's real simple: if you don't want us…

I wish you guys would look at the bigger picture

Heh. The centre square on the bingo card: 'don't you have something more important to worry about?' I am perfectly entitled to decide for myself what I think the 'bigger picture' is, thanks. And so is every other person here.…

I never said you weren't feminist, Suze. Perhaps you could do me the courtesy, and you too, Steve, of not telling me how to do my feminism.

Deborah
I am obviously a cruder person than you, but no…

All I ever do is try to empty the sea with this teaspoon; all I can do is keep trying to empty the sea with this teaspoon."

I used to have nightmares like that (or should I say NightHorses for fear of sounding sexist ;-) ) and I feel…

I'm just saying that Trotter shouldn't be reduced…

yeah, I had read that initial comment about J Shipley opening her legs, etc. But I don't believe that metaphor is misogynistic, either.

ROFL!!!!

Teaspoons, Suze. Teaspoons

I hasten to add that noone at PA frequently uses sexual and scatalogical references in their writing that could be construed as ignorant or offensive.

Hi, I'm Craig and I'm a potty-mouth! But even I've got limits, and I do try to keep 'em pointed and (more often than not)…

I’ve got to thank you for this wonderful innovation in blogging — usually the trolling goes on in the comments. You do it up front.

I'm beginning to think that as well. Does he have ads to sell or something?

(Sorry, Adblock means I never see them...)

Craig
I see the media neither as whores nor pimps. It's not that sinister. They are just a group of people captured by their own…

I happened to think as Suze did because both comments were highlighted.

That's my bad – I was in a hurry. I really don't have a problem with 'ewww, that person is unappealing' humour, but I do most definitely have a problem with the other remark. Not because it's 'sexual'…

Ok. Suze, could we decide on the narrative here: Are the media whores or pimps, rapists or nymphos who worship power?

slavering like hounds on a hunt.

I thought her dog analogy was most appropriate for her interpretation of events.

Sure, this stuff needs investigating but could the media please stop frothing at the mouth?

Ok. Suze, could we decide on the narrative here: Are the media whores or pimps, rapists or nymphos who worship power? Sorry, but I think we should actually stop being so damn patronising towards "ordinary…

Oh dear. Is it time to play feminist concern troll bingo with Chris Trotter?

Against my better judgement, I couldn't resist leaving a dissent:

I’ve got to thank you for this wonderful innovation in blogging — usually the trolling goes on in the comments. You do it up front. Even…

No, Craig, I don't think he has a cunning plot. I believe he has just let things run to a position where he can gain maximum advantage. Winnie loves being the underdog.

Well, John, I'm inclined to apply Occam's Razor here and think you're really giving him too much credit.…

Apparently, it is also wrong to use the act of rape as a metaphor.

But how else to describe the experience of an individual whose character has been trashed day after day, and whose reputation has been…

He says the documentation will be shown to a senior SFO executive.

Mr Williams says it…

As for how this will play out, I concur with Logan:

-He will be seen as a victim by enough people for his support to return.

How that…

It has been made uglier, however, by the way in which this particular dog-fight is being stage-managed. Taking advantage of your opponent’s gaffes, and seizing your chance to drive a wedge into fragile intra-party alliances, is one thing. A carefully orchestrated campaign of character assassination – the political…

Another claim by Hide — that TVNZ had deliberately destroyed evidence supporting that allegation — has been shown to be entirely fanciful.

Is it possible that Hide knew he had to make this claim in order to…

Steady on, Paul!

Deborah, I meant only that Mike Rann, the SA Premier, is a kiwi of sorts... honest!

You've got a crusader persona, cultivated over more than a decade. It's looking thin after a few years in government.

You've got a few allegations against you. You have the evidence to knock them over.

Your time in government is almost up. You need to…

But I just listened to his interview he gave this morning on national radio; and it changed my mind on how I think this is going to work out.

I thought it was…

Where you living Peter, South Australia?

Steady on, Paul!

But it's a good question to ask, all the same. Just where are you living, Peter? My feeling is that Helen Clark gets a fair amount of respect here, when they bother to notice NZ at all.

Hey, you guys? You might make a few of us with vaginas who don't appreciate slut-shaming metaphors a little uncomfortable with that one.

thank you danielle, you did that so nicely. i just couldn't think of anything that polite!

]]> Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:56:05 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-spiral-of-events/?p=66668#post66668 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-spiral-of-events/?p=66668#post66668

What a political mess. Miss Clark has lost all credibility over here. What on earth is happening over the ditch?

Really? How'd you measure that? I don't imagine many Australians give NZ politics too much attention frankly. Certainly I've heard lots of people comment favourably about Clark, particularly during Howard's…

Laila Harre, who I understand may be familiar to Mr Hooton, from the verbal thrashings she gives him most Mondays

To be honest, Julie, I think the only thrashings going down in that slot most of the time is to the intelligence of the listener. They're reasonable (if predictably partisan)…

How does Hooton do this? Time after time, he says stuff that is simply not true, and he does it on National Radio and in national newspapers. Yet he keeps getting invited back to do it again.

Itss bizarre but then Winston's been doing it for years.

My dealings with…

Paul L will back me up on this, he was there too – the guest speaker, a certain…

So, we still have a government, and we'll still get an ETS.

First, rather spooky that she remembered who I was after six years ...

You probably underrate your memorability.

Hey, you guys? You might make a few of us with vaginas who don't appreciate slut-shaming metaphors a little uncomfortable with that one.

Ditto. And I ran into Jenny Shipley a couple of months ago. First, rather spooky that she remembered who I was after six years (or faked it…

You might make a few of us with vaginas ... a little uncomfortable with that one.

Hey, we're all feeling a bit queasy. It wouldn't matter what "the ship" had between her legs (I'm sure there's a nautical joke in there somewhere).

So.... 3:40pm and Winston still has a job.…

Jenny Shipley, spreading her legs

Do you mind? I was just having my lunch.

Hey, you guys? You might make a few of us with vaginas who don't appreciate slut-shaming metaphors a little uncomfortable with that one.

I don't see your point I/S. You don't think the democratic process counts for anything?

I can't speak for I/S, but I have enormous respect for democracy. Doesn't mean I don't often look at the results and wonder if the universe is having a cruel joke at our expense. Exhibit…

Time after time, he says stuff that is simply not true, and he does it on National Radio and in national newspapers. Yet he keeps getting invited back to do it again.

Sounds a bit like Winston to me.

When are Labour-leaning people going to say no to Peters in the way many National-leaning people, particularly those of us on the socially liberal wing of the party, did some years ago?

Matthew, I thought National had started saying No to Peters about 48 hours ago? They…

I don't see your point I/S. You don't think the democratic process counts for anything?

Legitimacy <> credibility. The mere fact that someone is elected does not make them more likely to tell the truth. To think it does is a logical fallacy – not to mention an invitation to abuse.

What if the Maori Party hadn't been the last cab off the rank?

I think Maori Party in with Greens and Labour is going to be a coalition possibility, but it'll take a couple of electoral terms for them to be close enough to kiss and make up, just like…

I think my one qualm about the fairness of the whole business is wondering how it would play out if the media demanded every other party prove their anonymous donations went to the right place.

Zackerly Lyndon. I can't help but feel that the respective parties are pointing with one…

It's here in Trotter's blog. It's simply bizarre:

Poor Trotter, he appears to be in a form of terminal decline that affects both right and left. An example from the distant past, from The Chaser (http://www.chaser.com.au/content/view/3286/127/):

Billy Snedden

While not a cold-blooded killer, the 1970s Federal Liberal leader certainly was…

Helen Clark knew a donation was made. Owen Glenn told her. If she didn't believe Owen Glenn, but chose to believe Mr Peters, why all the repeated phone calls to seek clarification from Peters?

Helen Clark knew…

Nope, any more than a funny hat or snobby relations does.

I don't see your point I/S. You don't think the democratic process counts for anything?

What if the Maori Party hadn't been the last cab off the rank?

To be fair, I would think Labour were last cab off the rank or Tariana at the time too.

Who knows? Perhaps if the Greens had brought the Maori Party onside (all things remaining equal) she would…

It's annoying because that's interfering with my personal sense of satisfaction.

OTOH, Winston probably wouldn't…

Oops, and by rightly so, I meant the castigation bit.

Oh for Chrissakes...

I've said it before. Labour didn't screw the Greens in 2005. The Greens were unable to deliver Labour a majority in the House.

What if the Maori Party hadn't been the last cab off the rank?

Great, the beltway term I was castigated for using in some quarters yesterday is really catching on! ;-)

And rightly so too.

I'm stuck for a metaphor for Sean Plunket's extraordinary, impromptu interview with Winston Peters this morning.

I found myself thinking "Now I know what the sound of a man digging his own grave is like."

This has all been very messy for Labour, but at least Clark has reached out…

Ouch... my bad. Sorry about that, because I get rather pissy when people FUBAR my name and it's nice to repay the courtesy.

Are you high?

Also: Is Helen now regretting going with Peters instead of the Greens? Inquiring minds want to know...)

Helen had no choice if she wanted to form the government. Dunne refused to go into coalition with the Greens, and NZ1 & UF had more votes combined than the Greens could muster.

I've…

If turned out Fay or Richwhite had dropped a hundred grand on John Key...

There's more than a few MPs I'd like to drop a hundred grand on, provided it was dollar coins dropped from a great height.

"wow, the media has decided it's time to finish Winston Peters."

Winston Peters decided to finish Winston Peters at the time he's alleged to have decided to do exactly the kind of thing he's made hug political capital out of in the past – shady deals with wealthy New Zealand…

Doesn't look like he'll be gone by lunchtime ... any picks on whether he'll still be a Minister by the time Checkpoint comes on tonight?

I say he'll be singing Daisy, Daisy come three pm.

Actually, a pox on all their houses. It's hard to not become increasingly cynical about the whole beltway thing and how it operates.

Great, the beltway term I was castigated for using in some quarters yesterday is really catching on! ;-)

Doesn't look like he'll be gone by lunchtime ...…

No, I don't buy that at all. There is legitimate public interest in these matters, and it's Peters who has raised the stakes by calling everyone around him corrupt and a liar.

Russell, I thought you'd be the last one sucked in by this beatup.

It's not a beatup. Look…

But then Plunket let him off the hook!

This is a big judgment to make, I know, but I had the distinct impression that he took pity on Peters.

But then Plunket let him off the hook! He moved from trying to get the details of what was said…

I don't mind having a lie in, but I'd rather not spend it in the company of Peters and Plunket.

sounds like a cautionary tale about nappies.

"Do you think that John Key's endless virtuous comments might come to haunt him?"

Yes, but virtue in politics is surely a plus. If he gets roasted one day because of 'virtue' then let it be.

For "virtuous", read "self-righteous".

Winston: Helen, I don't understand why you're doing this to me.... I have the greatest enthusiasm for the mission... You are destroying my mind...…

Winston is paying the price for standing up against powers that have been held at bay by Labour. These same powers are attempting to bring down Labour by attacking Peters to deliver their bastard child, National.

No, I don't buy that at all. There is legitimate public interest in these…

These same powers are attempting to bring down Labour by attacking Peters to deliver their bastard child, National.

By messing with NZ First's accounting? By infiltrating Owen Glenn into enemy lines?

Do you think that John Key's endless virtuous comments might come to haunt him?

Yes, but virtue in politics is surely a plus. If he gets roasted one day because of 'virtue' then let it be.

Leaving aside personalities for a minute. Don't you think a thirty year career as an MP and Cabinet Minister in three separate governments gives you some degree of credibility?

Nope, any more than a funny hat or snobby relations does.

that interview with plunket this morning really was something.

i don't think i've ever heard the foreign minister sounding more tired. he only even managed to fire up about twice.

I noticed that. Though my main thought, bleary as I was at the time, was "this is going on a…

like most bullies, Winston does love to accuse others of his own worse sins

OK, since I went there — anyone noticed the similarities between a certain Cameron Slater and Winnie? Just sayin'...

Trotter is a bit of a dick, but am I the only one who has thought, as the issue bubbled to the surface every couple of weeks over recent months, "wow, the media has decided it's time to finish Winston Peters."

Not at all. To be honest, I've long scratched…

Trotter is a bit of a dick, but am I the only one who has thought, as the issue bubbled to the surface every couple of weeks over recent months, "wow, the media has decided it's time to finish Winston Peters."

Nah, I don't think so. As the detail emerges,…

I can't say it really bothers me one way…

SFO Investigation “Ridiculous” – Peters

Friday, 29 August 2008, 9:52 am
Press Release: New Zealand First Party
28 August 2008

SFO Investigation “Ridiculous” – Peters

New Zealand First Leader Rt Hon Winston Peters has described the Serious Fraud Office announcement of an investigation as “ridiculous in…

It's simply bizarre:

And pretty sad considering Bryan Spondre's been doing a valiant — and quite successful — job at weeding out the trolls, and keeping the civility high. (Full disclosure: I got the nicest rap over the knuckles ever. If he's looking for a new career, Bryan would be…

And there are worse things in this world than a mediocre MP.

Indeed, but that doesn't stop me being very pleased indeed about the imminent departure of Brian Connell from the House. What with Winston dominating the news so completely, the loss of Brian as an MP has hardly been…

Russell: "that bizarre "gang-rape" claim"??? Wow. What's that?

It's here in Trotter's blog. It's simply bizarre:

It has been made uglier, however, by the way in which this particular dog-fight is being stage-managed. Taking advantage of your opponent’s gaffes, and seizing your chance to drive a wedge into fragile intra-party…

Russell: "that bizarre "gang-rape" claim"??? Wow. What's that?

You stable-mate Chris Trotter being his adorably excitable self, Matthew.

Don't you think a thirty year career as an MP and Cabinet Minister in three separate governments gives you some degree of credibility?

I don't think he's had any credibility for a decade now.

Personally I wish someone would bring in a psychologist. There's some serious paranoia issues going on…

It's quite a lot of fun to light a touch fuse and watch you jump, sometimes Craig, but a considered response from you would be welcome as well.

It was a considered response. Glib cynicism about politics and politicians is something I have to fight in myself, and I've got…

But when it comes to the question of how she could trust Peters over Glenn, IMO it's…

Can you see Clark et al in their first term letting this happen? I can't.

What they have left on their hands is the impression of some very dodgy dealings.…

And it's Jose.

Ouch... my bad. Sorry about that, because I get rather pissy when people FUBAR my name and it's nice to repay the courtesy.

It's quite…

Of course you do Craig. That's probably because he gave $500,000 to your favourite party.

OK, Don... if I ever make sense of that, I'm sure I'll be horribly offended. Hey, if Owen Glenn wants to piss away him money on Labour and Winston First instead of hookers and coke,…

Parker's conduct was measured, temperate and actually did his reputation no harm at all

Exactly. And it's Jose.

Glenn still strikes me as more credible.

Of course you do Craig. That's probably because he gave $500,000 to your favourite party.

Very interesting to hear Peters state that he will not let what happened to David Parker happen to him. I'd argue Parker is better off now.

Well, Josie, even if you abonimate the source ('Investigate") as much as Helen and I do, the allegations made against David Parker were incredibly…

She didn't did she? Just because she didn't go public does not mean she sat on it.

Seriously? What Matthew said at para 3 and 4.

Peters doesn't have to bring the government down as there's only a few weeks before they rise for the election

i found plunket crowing "Clark government fails to run full term!!" a little... ridiculous.

forgive me if i'm mistaken, but hasn't it been almost three years since the last general…

I have wondered no such thing.

That was my recollection of what you said on The Panel yesterday.

And, Russell, your claim that Glenn was not necessarily a reliable witness should surely be balanced by the fact that the Foreign Minister is hardly a reliable witness either.

As I…

Leaving aside personalities for a minute. Don't you think a thirty year career as an MP and Cabinet Minister in three separate governments gives you some degree of credibility? Even if you don't agree with his politics.

Well, Paul, I'll open it to the room. How much cred would you…

i don't think i've ever heard the foreign minister sounding more tired. he only even managed to fire up about twice.

I was put in mind of a broken-down robot, croaking out its lines as its batteries died.

i don't think i've ever heard the foreign minister sounding more tired. he only even managed to fire up about twice.

Glenn still strikes me as more credible

Leaving aside personalities for a minute. Don't you think a thirty year career as an MP and Cabinet Minister in three separate governments gives you some degree of credibility? Even if you don't agree with his politics.

I still don't get how Clark sits on this until yesterday.

She didn't did she? Just because she didn't go public does not mean she sat on it. Also, the SFO investigation has nothing to do with the Glenn donations as far as I can tell.

Ultimately she is not…

Fair enough, but you know something — if you run an identical scratch-and-sniff test over Winston (and would this guy actually have a political career without allegations reported on page one that, somehow, never quite stack up), Glenn still strikes me as more credible.

And I'm sure Selwyn Cushing would…

Glenn still strikes me as more credible.

Even if you assume one is as credible as the other, I still don't get how Clark sits on this until yesterday. Except that the SFO inquiry followed so quickly that it dissipated some of the heat around her – so I see…