Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak
171 Responses
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Dinah Dunavan, in reply to
+1. I feel the whole Red Peak saga has been an exercise in mass manipulation. I wouldn't have selected it from the short list. I get the feeling that we're supposed to think that getting it onto the votting papers is a 'win'.
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simon g, in reply to
I feel the whole Red Peak saga has been an exercise in mass manipulation.
Who by? Toby Manhire Inc?
In a world where corporate mass manipulation is coming out of our ears, this was anything but.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
Has anyone asked what they are going to do with the 1.7 million pieces of paper that have been printed for the referendum.
Pulp the lot!
They'll want to print the next run on sustainably retrieved swamp kauri any way... -
Ian Dalziel, in reply to
I know bugger all about applied politics.
I think it involves liberal smearings of tar and feathers...
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Sacha, in reply to
Its ironic, that the opposition didn’t take a less is more better design approach, and do absolutely nothing. The national party should have been let to hover itself down a black hole over this.
You would think so. They can't seem to resist the prospect of publicity, even the bad sort.
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izogi, in reply to
I feel the whole Red Peak saga has been an exercise in mass manipulation. I wouldn’t have selected it from the short list. I get the feeling that we’re supposed to think that getting it onto the votting papers is a ‘win’.
Early on I wasn’t averse to debating and possibly changing the flag, but after all this I feel the entire flag selection process has been an exercise in politically motivated cronyism, long before the latest development. That may not be true, but with the way the whole thing’s been conducted, helped by the PM not being able to shut up about his own preferences, it’s created a perception that everyone was simply going to be asked “which rendition of the PM’s favourite silver fern do you like most for the national marketing logo?”
The method for adding Red Peak is what it is, but so many people rallied around it as a direct consequence of the mess that preceeded it. Apart from giving voters another choice which is less of a corporate logo and at least resolving an argument that everyone’s been wasting lots of effort on (I hope), I’m struggling to imagine how it’s made things any worse.
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Sacha, in reply to
they deserve that.
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I think I might put Red Peak at first preference, if just that it is less awful than the other four, no disrespect to the designers intended. I am a little tempted to spoil my ballot, to send some sort of signal, but then on the other hand, this kind of signal is usually ignored at best.
Come next year, I don't see myself voting for any of the five over the current. Ask me again when we become a republic.
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Newsworthy (TV3) has created a Red Peak alphabet
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So, how many of you have changed from Hypno flag to Red Peak Flag ? That should sit nicely with what John Key Inc. wants. Breaking up the Hypno Flag momentum should bring Johnny's silver fern right through the middle. If in doubt ,get any opposition to National squabbling again.
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
your existing T-shirt
The T-shirt analogy is false.
With the T-shirt you are the only person wearing it, you are not deciding for the entire population which T-shirt they will wear.
With the T-shirt you are spending your personal income not the income of the entire country.
Bad analogy is bad.
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izogi, in reply to
Breaking up the Hypno Flag momentum should bring Johnny’s silver fern right through the middle.
Wouldn’t that depend on how people rank their choices in the preferential vote? If everyone who ranks either flag first ranks the other immediately after (possibly not a reliable assumption), then all of those votes flood to the other one as soon as either is eliminated.
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
Do we really need just one?
Nope. But apparently because that was the way it was done 500 years ago we have to do it that way now.
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Hilary Stace, in reply to
That surely is a flawed argument. What about the law of nature that change is the only constant?
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You know what I'd really like to see at this point. Someone, perhaps a political party, perhaps simply someone with some money, anyway someone get say a dozen of the top design/artist gurus to come up with say 10 different flag designs and just throw them out there for the public to look at.
My bet it that 10 such designs would be very obviously better than 35 of the 40 on the long list.
I'd also really really like it if people stopped thinking as if it was the 1500s and you needed a simple flag that was recognisable from both sides from across a 1000m battle field or over 5000m of sea. Because it is 2015 now!
But that's just me.
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
What about the law of nature that change is the only constant?
Are you suggesting a flag that evolves over time, printed on some kind of intelligent fabric that alters colour and shape with seasons ...
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Hilary Stace, in reply to
What a good idea
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linger, in reply to
A national mood crystal? (Goes all black when the All Blacks lose...)
... Looking over Carol Green's long list linked to by Lilith upthread, there were at least 10 designs already submitted that were
very obviously better than 35 of the 40 on the long list
!
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mpledger, in reply to
<q>
What about the law of nature that change is the only constant?
Are you suggesting a flag that evolves over time, printed on some kind of intelligent fabric that alters colour and shape with seasons …
</q>I still think we should have a flag made by Lenticular printing
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenticular_printing )
that changes as it moves in the wind.Super cool for the 21rst century.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
The Sting...
That should sit nicely with what John Key Inc. wants
I know...
...it's the worry that us gaming the system has been taken into consideration by their gaming of the system - the looong con!
Oh what to do?
Woe ist moi... -
Ian Dalziel, in reply to
...a flag made by Lenticular printing
I get it!
A pencil case flag for the easily 'lead'? -
Sue,
nope, nope, nope.
If you subscribe to the theory that a flag defines a nation
Are we a bicultural society or are we a multicultural society?
are we a colonial society or are we postcolonial?
are we something else?i don't know, i don't know enough to know. I know there are very wise people out there who study and think about things like this where are their voices in the flag change?
while red peak might be the triumph of social media while i might even like it, i think giving it my vote deny's our country a proper sit down & discussion about who we are, and what that means. Then how that could be defined in a flag.
The nationwide engagement programme never had space for this so i'll be voting no change, anything else (even if i like it) is a bit of a waste of time
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chris, in reply to
The T-shirt analogy is false.
With the T-shirt you are the only person wearing it, you are not deciding for the entire population which T-shirt they will wear.
With the T-shirt you are spending your personal income not the income of the entire country.
Bad analogy is bad.
I did what I could within George’s frame of reference to correct his misinterpretation of Labour’s proposed selection process, which I feel is important and has been widely misrepresented and misunderstood. ‘You’ can be singular or plural, there was no mention of any financial transaction and it’s not uncommon to use the singular to refer to items in a uniform:
The All Blacks jersey for the 2015 Rugby World Cup pays homage to the ‘Originals’ All Blacks team, but is the most technologically advanced yet, maker adidas says.
An alternative interpretation of this sentence could equate to a very chilly time indeed for the bulk of our lads.
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william blake, in reply to
I think these are some of the questions that need to be acknowledged in the debate over a new flag.
Constitutionally NZ/Aotearoa is bi cultural, composed of tangata whenua and manuhiri. And given that this constitutional fact is disputed and dishonoured I would say we aren't yet post colonial.
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Why can't manuhiri be multicultural? Come to that, why can't tangata whenua be multicultural - because there are many individuals who have heritage other than Maori and British?
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