Hard News: The Letter
443 Responses
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Deborah, in reply to
I spent the day with Tamati on Tuesday. He's smart and insightful ie. not just a pretty face. I think he will be a great MP.
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Rich Lock, in reply to
Another time, another thread.
I'll finish the e-mail I've been drafting for...erm....some months....You can reply to that.
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BenWilson, in reply to
OK, looking forward to it.
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
Labour’s trouble is much deeper than any lack of talent. I think it’s just an old, worn out idea.
You might have to expand on that one a bit.
That is so sad and so wrong.
Labour has always been about those that do the work that makes it possible for the capitalists to succeed. Whether it be the toilet cleaners that tidy up after the Prime Ministers excesses or the engineers that maintain the fleet of airplanes that serve the airline we used to own.
We should reflect on this.
I am not against the Greens, in fact I believe we need more attention to be paid to the fact that capitalism is, and has always, has been destroying the only planet we have and the Greens are our conduit for doing just that, saving our only planet. We need the Greens and the Greens need Labour.
Labour has run alone in the past and won, times have changed and so have the rules. We are now faced with a system that, in some ways is more representative but at the same time more complex, many voters are confused by that, we need coherence.
The undecided voter is in no way enamored by bickering, they will just go with the flow and let their lives be governed by those that have the power, believing that is the best option, especially as John Key has his picture in all the best bookstores in time for an early Christmas (personally I look forward to seeing his tiny tome pop up in the $2 bin at the Warehouse after Election Day) doing what they think is right.
WE need to be staunch, we stand together, Red and Green' we have the power if we stick together, we shall overcome, Key must be gone. We do not need this wunch of bankers. -
Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
I spent the day with Tamati on Tuesday. He’s smart and insightful ie. not just a pretty face. I think he will be a great MP.
Yes ,I think people get off on finding the faults without seeing the good. Labour have individuals. They speak their own minds, unlike NAct ional MUfs. Labour glow in the dark.Yes, they are different to Greens. But they understand the Greens and together they will prevail. Together with any other party ,they can show compassion for the Planet beside compassion for survival of the work force. That's not old and worn out. that's showing that times change. Is that so bad? I think not. I don't want to toss politicians because their ideas are older. There is wisdom with those guys. They are mentors for all that's right and wrong in politics for the young ones coming through.
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BenWilson, in reply to
The undecided voter is in no way enamored by bickering
I'm undecided about that. I do love it when someone puts up a good fight.
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I hope you all saw this interesting post about that mysterious undecided tribe at The Political Scientist. The statistics are all a bit too technical for me, but what I understood was: Nat and Green support is pretty stable, Labour support fluctuates with the undecided, such that high undecided = low Labour, and vice versa. Also, high Nat poll ratings aren't actually high Nat poll ratings, there's just something funny in how the media reports polls. Now, hopefully those of you more conversant in statistics than I can fill in the many gaps in all that...
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BenWilson, in reply to
It’s good, isn’t it? Casts light on just how weak the claims of voters moving from party to party are. It really is about getting undecideds to vote.
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
I do love it when someone puts up a good fight.
Back of the bike sheds, 4 o'clock, or the hamster gets it....
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Just encourage your friends, relations, hamsters, workmates, whoever, to vote labour or greens or internet/mana or even winston first, whichever suits them best. Just show them how National will fuck them over. I know that will only work for 99% of people but, hey, lets be greedy eh?
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
It’s good, isn’t it? Casts light on just how weak the claims of voters moving from party to party are. It really is about getting undecideds to vote.
Labour has lost vote share all right, but according to a recent chart of electoral vote share - visited the page but forgotten the link, and it's not Te Standard or DimPost - apparently it hasn't been losing them to the Nats because the Nats' actual number of votes hasn't changed much in recent elections.
Rather, it's been losing vote share to the Greens (I was one of them) and possibly InterMana, but most all it seems to have lost the most votes to common nouns - cynicism, disillusionment, apathy, you name it. And you know what they say about common nouns being harder to fight than proper nouns. It's sadly a pattern that spans the industrialised world.
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Sacha, in reply to
the problem we had at the last election, Green supporters attacking Labour over imagined sleights
examples?
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Sacha, in reply to
visited the page but forgotten the link
Chris linked to it a few posts above you.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
Another time,
another thread.I feel an Only Ones song coming on...
TGIF ;- )
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An extraordinary editorial in today’s Herald – a master class of how to wrap a retraction in bluster and bad journalism in pious self-righteousness.
And this from a paper that sees no conflict in one of it's senior reporters, anonymous editorial writers and columnists writing and publishing a breathless hagiography of the PM three months out from a general election.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
The Herald editorial uses 539 words before it finally gets to this:
We regret having reported inflated and conflated dollar figures.
Then:
The core issue remains, however: At a minimum, removing Mr Barker's China trip and a donation to a rowing club the MP's daughter belonged to, Labour faces Liu's claim that he made $38,000 in donations to the party and anonymously through MPs.
At least they're saying "claimed" rather than "confirmed", but by their own account they've don't have the information to cite a figure like $38,000. Liu's second statement says it is his "belief" that he donated "close to" $100,000 and we now know that what he believes to be a donation is is not necessarily a donation.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Can we have a little more maturity this time, there is too much at stake for this kind of non productive behavior.
This probably doesn’t need to be relitigated, but it’s funny how that “maturity” always seems to be demanded of Greens and not of Labour supporters who start screeching “splitters” every damn time the Greens stake out a contrary position, or fail to be properly thankful for getting sledged by the likes of Damien O’Connor and Shane Jones.
I’m quite probably going to party vote Green again, but Labour’s sure doing nothing to woo me with the passive-aggressive condescension.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
The Herald editorial uses 539 words before it finally gets to this:
We regret having reported inflated and conflated dollar figures.
Well, that's a damn sight better than the precisely zero words (as far as I know) expended on a retraction and apology for the allegations that Len Brown pressured the Auckland City Art Gallery into being a parking garage for his mistress.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
I think Labour’s trouble is much deeper than any lack of talent. I think it’s just an old, worn out idea. It doesn’t speak to young people.
You may be right, but it's a very old song. The long-defunct Australian Nation-Review described the upcoming NZ election in terms of a boxing match, with a motheaten Labour emerging from it's corner "in faded pink". That was back in 1972.
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BenWilson, in reply to
True. But a lot has happened since 1972. That's pretty much my entire life. During that time, Labour got almost twice as old. It went from being a middle aged party to a venerable one. National did also, but National was really already venerable when it was born.
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Chris Waugh, in reply to
they’ve don’t have the information to cite a figure like $38,000.
They've also completely failed to demonstrate that there was anything improper in Liu's donations or that Labour did Liu any favours in exchange for that cash. But still they insist:
Next we revealed Mr Cunliffe, a day after denying any advocacy for Liu during his residency application, had, in fact, sent a letter to the Immigration Service outlining Liu's investment intentions and giving them a hurry-up in making a decision.
Sigh. I suppose that's one way to interpret the letter, but the simplest, most likely interpretation..... oh, this is all getting rather tiresome.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
not a Catholic then?
...but National was really already venerable when it was born.
are you saying they are some sort of sub-sainted vampires!
Venerable (in the Roman Catholic Church) a title given to a deceased person who has attained a certain degree of sanctity but has not been fully beatified or canonized.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
My comment on that editorial page:
"The retraction you have when you’re not having a retraction”.
At least they acknowledged error, even if it’s a Clayton’s acknowledgement. Still, the comments I've seen so far are mostly calling bollocks, and anyone who’s still hesitating to go to the Press Council, hesitate no further.
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BenWilson, in reply to
are you saying they are some sort of sub-sainted vampires!
No, just that they were formed from older existing parties. Also I should correct that Labour was not born in the 30s. That was just when they became seriously relevant. Anyone who was calling them irrelevant in 1972, when they had 46% of the popular vote, and built that up to 63% by the election in 1972, is not coming from the same place I am in saying they're tired out.
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BenWilson, in reply to
Rather, it’s been losing vote share to the Greens (I was one of them)
That's one of the things the link shows is a pretty minor effect. Which is kind of obvious, since the Greens move in a much smaller range than Labour.
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