Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Research Fail

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  • Steve Barnes,

    would it all be "blues"-based?

    Good on ya Liz, I knew you would see that.
    Woke up this morning,
    Was still stuck in the lift.
    Life has its ups and downs.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Well, I am entitled to dream, am I not?

    Dear Lord man, that was just shy of two thousand words. If you're going to start telling us about your dreams as well, I might have to apply for work leave just to be able follow the thread.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia,

    The programming on Saturday (am and pm) is the sort of stuff they should be doing more of, IMHO.

    At least they are there. Weekday mornings aren't too bad. Where else in the media would you get 25 minute interviews?

    I actually find The Panel quite diverting. It just needs a new host and new guests - concept okay.

    This is related to the IPWG because the gummint is starting to show its true colour?

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 559 posts Report Reply

  • Gordon Dryden,

    Apologies 2000 words is too much for you, Giovanni.

    You should try reading a book some time. Most are longer, except The Two Minute Manager.

    Just kidding.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 30 posts Report Reply

  • Marcus Turner,

    Here's an interesting perspective from Utah.

    (It's an LA Times story.)

    Since Nov 2006 • 212 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    Umm, was going to try defuse by suggesting the plagiarism committee might want to check if that ends up in a university essay called Education In New Zealand: A Dream Within a Dream, but now I'm just gonna sit and watch the gio-graphical response.

    Everyone got their helmets on?

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia,

    “I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.”

    This was Mark Twain?

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 559 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    You should try reading a book some time.

    Yeah, I heard of those. Must try some time, it's just that the tech support is so backed up.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    Apologies 2000 words is too much for you, Giovanni.

    Well, initially I found it rather daunting, but I persisted as you have an easy, conversational style of writing, Gordon.

    Re Finland. In the past I too have used it as a model for various things eg its broadcasting system, whereby the commercial channels MTV cross-subsidise the psb channels of YLE1 and 2. Nevertheless, the Finns have an attitude to public responsibility and state intervention that would never wash here--in fact, Rodders would choke on his low-cal meusli bar, even to contemplate it (and Sir Rog might have a heart attack--but say no more). When I visited there some years (in the dead of winter), they were contemplating legislation that would mean that wealthier traffic offenders would pay proportionately higher for their transgressions than lower paid Finns. ( Maybe that would be a good idea--or base it on size of vehicle, with Hummer drivers having to pay X10 what a Honda Civic driver would pay!)

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2562 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Could I, too — like a few others — make a plea for all contributors not to make blanket judgments based on others' party affiliations

    I don't think that's really happening; just a bit of sarcasm returned in kind.

    I actually find The Panel quite diverting. It just needs a new host and new guests - concept okay.

    Sort of like, "Nice bat; just needs a new blade and a new handle."

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia,

    Sort of like, "Nice bat; just needs a new blade and a new handle."

    I asked for that ... I just mean that I like the idea of it, sometimes like the comments and think it could be easily improved.

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 559 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi,

    Interesting post, Gordon. However, I think your exhortation to 'consider "the concept" rather than the particular label' oversimplifies the reason people did object and are continuing to object to many of the concepts you discuss.

    Simply because a policy decision was later shown to have some good effects, that does not mean that said policy decision was the best one to make in the given context, only that the people most affected by these decisions managed to (in the words of Tim Gunn) "make it work."

    Moreover, it's generally entirely appropriate to discuss broad categories of policy decision that are similar enough for the same counterarguments to always apply. Certainly, you can tweak strategies to increase efficiencies and improve outcomes, but if the fundamental principles driving the strategy are the same, and if it's those fundamental principles that are being objected to, then nothing has really changed at all.

    "A chicken with its neck wrung is different from a chicken with its head cut off, but does that really matter to the chicken?"

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 864 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    they were contemplating legislation that would mean that wealthier traffic offenders would pay proportionately higher for their transgressions than lower paid Finns

    That actually became law in Finland a few years back. Here's an example from 2004.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    they were contemplating legislation that would mean that wealthier traffic offenders would pay proportionately higher for their transgressions than lower paid Finns

    That actually became law in Finland a few years back. Here's an example from 2004.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    Anyway, as we are keeping the spirit of the discussion, I agree that while longer than the average post here, it was worthwhile and interesting. Thanks Gordon.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg,

    When I visited there some years (in the dead of winter), they were contemplating legislation that would mean that wealthier traffic offenders would pay proportionately higher for their transgressions than lower paid Finns.

    In use: Day-fine

    ETA: Rich, snap!

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 802 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia,

    Gordon, I read all your posts because their subject matter interests me but I think there is a blog discussion etiquette about length. Not that I would know!

    Because you are new here I will nudge you towards the link to Giovanni's own blog.

    http://bat-bean-beam.blogspot.com/

    He's one of them interleckshals so I think he can read books. All kidding aside:)

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 559 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    the Finns have an attitude to public responsibility and state intervention that would never wash here

    That's defeatist talk, Geoff. There IS an alternative -- lots of them, in fact. And at various times and places in NZ those alternatives have enjoyed wide popular support. There is no reason that they can't again.

    One of the things that is currently driving me nuts about the handwringing comparisons to Australia, never mind Finland, is that no one in Opposition seems keen to mention the higher minimum wage, the stronger union movement, the superior conditions for workers, and the generally more regulated environment. GRAAAR.

    It may take us a while but we can still get there.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Whoops,

    "A chicken with its neck wrung is different from a chicken with its head cut off, but does that really matter to the chicken?"

    or; 'the end justifies the means'?

    Lot's of people trying hard to chose the right means, a few people aiming for the (ideological) end.

    here • Since Apr 2007 • 105 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    One of the things that is currently driving me nuts about the handwringing comparisons to Australia, never mind Finland, is that no one in Opposition seems keen to mention the higher minimum wage, the stronger union movement, the superior conditions for workers, and the generally more regulated environment. GRAAAR.

    And of course, the hectares and hectares of desert wasteland that's of little use - except of course, coal exports to China and toxic waste dumps.

    What's even more grating is that nations with little or no natural resources have wised up and harnessed their brainpower. Right now in NZ our movers and shakers seem bent on the exact opposite.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    I'm the last person to complain about epic posts. Having forged through Gordon's, I crystallize one main plea, to remain open to different ideas for education. Which is fine. I hope that this plea also applies to the government who are actually in control of the education system as much as it does to blogs discussing it.

    I don't think blog discussions are especially conducive places to brainstorming, though. Nearly everyone wears a "black thinking hat" as Edward De Bono might put it. But black hats are useful, for what they do, criticizing - it's a part of the creative process. Just not by any means the only part. It is a big challenge to ask anyone to put their ideas for how NZ might be better educated down in this forum, daunting in the extreme for most people.

    Thank you Gordon for trying. Now, where is my black hat?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    That's defeatist talk, Geoff.

    You misunderstand me. I was suggesting that they wouldn't wash with the current bozos we have in power. Personally, I find much to admire in ideas from Finland and other other chilly parts of the globe.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2562 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Yes, there is an etiquette to postage but I wouldn't have brought it up if it hadn't been for the egregiousness of the "If it is possible to cut out a word, always cut it out" comment from earlier in the week. :-)

    Also I can confirm I have been made to read the odd book and in fact I'm reading one even now, three lines a day. (Is it still horrible link-whoring if I'm not the original author?)

    So why not consider "the concept" rather than the particular label?

    It would be grand to have a debate, it's just patent than the Right in New Zealand doesn't want to have it. It rammed through National Standards under urgency, and is pushing them through against the best advice they've received. Plus we have a minister whose idea of debating with teachers is to sit down, read them a book about a rat, get up and leave. Really this is a grotesque approach to the public conversation and the only correct response is to ridicule it and the newspapers that go along with it. As for the "these aren't school vouchers, we swear!" proposal that came out yesterday, again it's a bit hard to not invoke the label since both Roy and Douglas have been in favour of vouchers for years, and also for how patently reality-disconnected the proposal in its current back-of-a-napkin form is. Have you ever known a private school to go out of its way to take the bottom 20% of anything? I sure haven't. So while they'll be busy competing for the top 5% (they already poach them, by the way, but at least we don't have to pay) the public money that goes to private schools will increase. But that's not a problem for Roy, Douglas et al. because they believe in trickle down education, as is well documented.

    The United States has the best research universities in the world

    It also has some of the worst ones. Nobody has ever denied that elitist education works for the elites, you know?

    And what America also has, is universities that are not allowed to criticise their sponsors, even when they enslave children to produce their sneakers. Is that what we want for New Zealand?

    Besides, applying a market model to our universities has had disastrous results, and surely we are the only nation stupid enough to have publicly funded universities compete against each other and blow their budget in advertising. Don't answer, I'd really like to think that nobody else has lost the plot to this extent.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    Nobody has ever denied that elitist education works for the elites, you know?

    Quite. The financial model for Ivy League schools -- Harvard, famously, is a college attached to an investment fund -- is to beg money from privileged alumni on the basis that their mediocre offspring will be able to inherit the same privilege, coasting on the reflection of the few talented proles who are allowed in.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    I have heard that Victoria University aspires to be 'the critic and conscience of society'.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3229 posts Report Reply

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